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Another resistance for Ice-types?

Discussion in 'Pokémon General' started by BraviaryScout, Apr 27, 2017.

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  1. BraviaryScout

    BraviaryScout Way of the Wind

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    Hey everyone, BraviaryScout here. Fairly new to LV, but I'm glad to be here in such a friendly community. So here's my first thread :)

    While playing Moon the other night, I've noticed that the Ice-type has got to be the worst defensive typing out of all the 18. It is only resistant to itself, zero immunities and having weaknesses to fire, rock, steel and fighting (all of which are fairly common attacks) make even defensive oriented ice Pokémon rather fragile. It's a shame since there are some awesome defensive Ice Pokémon like Cloyster, Cryogonal and Avalugg that are incredibly tanky, but their huge array of weaknesses hamper their effectiveness.

    I totally get that ice is viewed as brittle and not liable and all, but I feel that since its moves cover the weakness of flying, ground, dragon and grass that it should gain a resistance to one of those as well.
    Thankfully in Generation VII, the ice type did get a little more help in the form of Aurora Veil, which halves physical and special damage. It can only be activated in a hailstorm and can be stacked with Light Screen and Reflect. However even with that, Aurora Veil is only available to a handful of ice types.

    So this is what I would propose to help alleviate some of the ice's glaring weaknesses and look at moving forward in a future Pokémon installment. Granted, I have no say in what really happens since really, the Pokémon company and gamefreak gods are the ones in charge of the franchise. Needless to say; I doubt any of this will get implemented, but it's fun to speculate. I'd be happy if any one of my ideas would come true.

    • Raise defense or specdef in a hailstorm: I think this idea would notch well especially now that rock types gain a specdef boost in a sandstorm. It would incline more people to incorporate hail into their strategies especially with abilities like Ice Body and Snow Cloak.
    • Resist Flying: Out of all the four types that Ice does supereffective damage over, I feel like it should at least resist Flying. That type is only resisted by Electric, Rock and Steel so adding Ice I think wouldn't diminish its effectiveness overall while giving Ice a bit of love.
    • Resist Ground: Ground is only resisted by Grass, Bug and completely obsolete on Flying under normal circumstances. Being how it is so ubiquitous, I think don't think adding another resistance to the common attacking type would hurt.
    I'd like to hear your thoughts on this awesome type. Do you think it needs a buff on the defensive aspect? Is it fine as is?
    If you could change something about the Ice-type, what would you do?

    Thanks for reading.
    Brav
     
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  2. GiratinaMissingNo

    GiratinaMissingNo ~Renegade Glitch~

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  3. Weedle Enthusiast

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    I think the hail one could be done no problem. But having played a lot of gen 6 competitive, I don't think that ice really needs a big boost. There isn't a glass type (yet), so instead of glass cannons, we get ice cannons. Ice moves generally have a lot of power, and a few moves with pretty nice effects. It is a neat speculation thing, but I feel almost like Ice Types would become a little broken if they buffed them by too much.
     
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  4. Xarn

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    Dark Resistance made me think about "Dark Ice", sounds really cool! haha.
    And I must say that they are so beautiful designed. Makes me want to be an Ice Type Gym Leader :D

    I agree. Ice Types are really Strong and Pokemons like Kyurem make you think twice about its set configuration. Its not pretty common to see them since many players are afraind about Fight Type Moves that often open a hole in modern teams.

    Everything is a matter of balance. Knowing the meta will allow you to pick certain Pokémon by their type but there are often unbalanced combinations that could

    make some times be out the current meta. Ice Types have their moment with Pokémon like Mamoswine and still make the difference.

    Darkest Ninja was here
     
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  5. Mandriel

    Mandriel Valor Knight

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    I think if anything, ice should resist water. It always confused me that water was able to resist ice and not the other way around.
     
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  6. Xarn

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    Well, Water can move Icebergs but Icebergs do not affect Water's nature. I had the same question too and I found this logic.

    @[member="Mandriel"] I like your point :)
     
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  7. Dwlr

    Dwlr Banned

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    I haven't played Pokémon in a coon's age, but logically Ice should resist Electricity, Flying, Grass at the very least. Ice is a poor conductor of electricity, it puts foilage into a state of dormancy so there is should be both super effective and resist and same with Flying there are very few birds that like cold weather and even fewer of those birds actually fly considering most of them are various species of penguin. In terms of super-effectiveness I never really understood why Ice is super effective against Dragon type seeing as there are several instances where a dragon isn't just a fire-breathing sterotype including the existence of ice dragons and water dragons which shouldn't carry neutrality to ice due to their dragon sides. With that said I'd replace that super-effective with steel as when metals become colder they become more brittle ergo even though metal should maintain it's super-effective over ice, ice should have an advantage over it as well. Additionally in the water vs ice debate I'd give Ice super effective over water as when water becomes cold it turns into ice, I realize that ice floats and melts but you have to consider that ice represents the element of cold not just frozen water per say so dumping some supercooled solid into water will most definitely freeze it and putting a starter ice into water will help freeze water more quickly as the water cools while heating the ice trying to form that equilibrium of a uniform temperature throughout the system so should the surround air be cold enough to freeze the water introducing the ice will give said surrounding freezing temperatures an easier time in terms of changing the water's temperature.

    IMO
    Resist - Electricity, Grass, Flying, Water
    Super Effective Against - Grass, Rock, Flying, Steel, Bug, Electricity
    Weak Against - Steel, Rock, Fire, Fighting

    Electricity - Poor conductor of electricity ergo since ground is Super Effective and takes no damage because it resists electricity a poor conductor should take reduced damage while still being super effective.
    Grass - puts in a state of dormancy and it doesn't grow ergo shouldn't affect it and should be weak to it
    Flying - Birds migrate ergo super effective and resist
    Water - With cold water freezes ergo IMO ice should trump water.
    Rock - Water in rock that freezes accelerates erosion in the rock thus should take super effective damage however ice can be broken by a rock striking it thus taking super effective damage as well.
    Steel - Cold causes steel to weaken but like rock steel can break ice.
    Bug - Winter removes bugs
    Fire - Fire melts ice
    Fighting - Ice being struck breaks
     
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  8. Vigilance

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    I agree with the logic in here. Now that I think about it ice should be effective on steel because of the brittle effect
     
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  9. Cadbberry

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    I think that ice types should not be affected by bug types at all since ice usually kills bugs completely. Also, they should pick either rock or ground for it to be immune to since ice usually can cover the ground and coat over it.
     
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  10. Dwlr

    Dwlr Banned

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    The ground doesn't really freeze solid, it gets a bit harder in the winter for the temperatures, not really sure they decide that based on what it can cover by that logic you can start a fire on the ocean if you wanted to. Then poison includes oil and such according to Pokédex entries on Grimer and Muk so based on that Fire should be super effective against poison. As for insects it sends them into dormancy not outright kills them and there are bugs that can survive temperatures as low as -54C things like ants go underground in the winter and survive just fine. IMO there is absolutely no reason Ice should have an immunity of any kind.

    Pure water conducts no electricity at all so should water have an electric immunity instead of being weak to it? After all that's why Ground is immune to electricity is that it's "grounded". Conducting o electricity at all is pretty much by definition being unaffected by it. Electricity can start a fire so shouldn't fire be immune to it as well?
     
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  11. Bubbles

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    It always bothered me how ice is super effective towards ground but NOT rock.

    I'd make ice resist rock and ground and be super effective towards both, but it's really unlikely GF would change a super effective type match up to a resistant one.
     
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  12. BraviaryScout

    BraviaryScout Way of the Wind

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    Honestly, I think rock has enough weaknesses as is. It already is weak to water, grass, steel, ground and fighting.

    This is what I would do if I was in charge:

    • Allow a specdef boost whenever hailing
    Ice would be resistant to:
    • Ice
    • Flying
    • Ground
    Ice would be weak to:
    • Fire
    • Steel
    • Rock
    • Fighting
    And then Ice would be normally damaged to:
    • Electric
    • Psychic
    • Dark
    • Bug
    • Normal
    • Ghost
    • Fairy
    • Grass
    • Water
    • Dragon
    • Poison
     
  13. Mandriel

    Mandriel Valor Knight

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    When you put it that way, it makes sense. I suppose this is also the case since hot water can melt ice, but that might be a bit of a stretch. All the same, water's the most logical resistance I can think of.
     
  14. Otter Mii-kun

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    Thinking about this issue, I wish Ice was resistant to Grass and Bug. Both Grass and Bug are already weak to Ice attacks, which is entirely logical, and it's worth considering that some other type match-ups will have one type be super-effective against another offensively, and that one type will resist that other type defensively (e.g. Grass is super-effective against and resists Water).
     
  15. ClefairyKid

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    I'm not an expert on typing and the balance of them but i've always had this impression that ice was the kind of type that was included not to be a widely used thing that can tackle everything, but rather that its the kind of type that's used as a wildcard to upset someone like a dragon player who doesn't statistically expect to see someone using that.
     
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  16. Kiyase

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    I feel like ice types should be able to resist water, just going off of the fact that ice is frozen water.
     
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