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Too many Skinny Pokemon this gen?

Discussion in 'Other Pokémon Games' started by Almiraj, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Almiraj

    Almiraj Black Belt

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    The game is abreviated as Pokémon SuMo, and yet it has...

    Deucideye
    Primarina
    Lycanroc
    Salazzal
    Toxipex
    Tapu Koko
    Tapu Fini
    Tapu Lele
    Tsareena
    Lurantis
    Pheromosa
    Xurkitree
    Celesteela
    Kartana
    Necrozma

    And in a game that usually has a good mix of muscular, quadrupedal, skinny and even chubby monsters, in Pokémon SuMo, the chunky monsters are...

    Crabomidable
    Togedemaru
    Guzzlord
    ...

    Honestly, this along with the lack of in-game diversions drove me away from Sun/Moon. If this and Pokken are any indication of anything, it's that the current makers of Pokémon assume that anorexic Pokémon are the only ones people want. To be honest, I can't really stand them. I like monsters that are big, fat and bulky. It says "big, strong, can take hits well," where skinny Pokémon reads "Weak, frail, cannot deal or take hits." Pokémon like Pheromosa completely defy logic. I mean god, good special attack MAYBE, but there's no good reason Pheromosa should be strong in Physical as well. And honestly... no. Stats that defy the "Weak and frail" architype don't make me like them, in fact I hate them more when their attack and defense stats are unrealistically powerful. Heck, sometimes they don't even look FAST! Pheromosa looks like just taking a step would cripple her. I mean, god, being fat is unhealthy, but being anorexic can be worse.

    So the overabundance of skinny Pokémon and the lack of big guys, as well as the fact that all of the Ultra Beasts are super powerful EXCEPT the big bulky guy I like so much actually made me feel insulted, really. The only things even remotely making me want this game are the Battle Royale and the Raticate boss. ...Sad, to be honest.
     
  2. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    Honestly, I can't agree with most of what has been said here. Let's start with this "skinny shamelist"
    • Decidueye isn't exactly "skinny", I'd say it's pretty average. Besides, it's a ghost, it's literally wasting away
    • Primarina is supposed to resemble both a mermaid and siren, both of which are supposed to be the general consensus of an "attractive" woman, which is usually someone of thinner proportions.
    • Lycanroc, both formes, are wolves. Have you ever seen a fat wolf before?
    • Salazzle is able to seduce both Pokémon and humans, it was designed as a sexy lizard. Also, lizards are usually skinny, unless they've had a large meal.
    • What part of Toxapex is skinny? It's literally a dome.
    • The Tapus aren't really "skinny" - sure, their bodies are skinny, but they've got large round shells that are a part of their body.
    • Tsareena has the thickest legs I've ever seen. Sure, it's skinny up top, but down below? I don't think so.
    • Lurantis is based on a praying mantis. They're usually quite skinny, so it makes sense that Lurantis is also skinny.
    • Pheromosa is definitely very skinny, I agree, but this whole post seems to be just you bashing on Pheromosa. Yes, it's stats aren't conventional for how it looks. Yes, it looks like it should shatter itself every time it lands a High Jump Kick. But you have to remember that Pheromosa is an Ultra Beast, which is literally an alien Pokémon. Also, it's a Pokémon. There's 800 of them; if they all had powers based on their appearance, the game would be pretty boring.
    • Xurkitree is literally a bunch of wires. Wires aren't supposed to be thick, they're supposed to be thin to make sure they can fit into tight spaces with ease.
    • Why is Celesteela on this list? What part of Celesteela is skinny? It's neck, I guess??
    • Kartana is origami.
    • I'm not sure how Necrozma is "skinny" either, it doesn't really look skinny. It's not fat, yes, but it's not skinny.
    Now onto the list of "fatties". You stated that these Pokémon look like they should be able to take hits, and yet all of the Pokémon you listed can't do that very well at all. Also, there are a few other fatties in the Alola region. Alolan Raticate literally evolved to be fatter because of it's diet, Muk is still a chubby blob no matter where you find it, Alolan Persian has the fattest head I've ever seen, and Mudsdale is pretty chunky too.

    All in all, I'd say that the reasoning provided for why you chose to avoid Sun and Moon isn't substantiated at all. Just because one of its abbreviations is "SuMo" doesn't mean every Pokémon needs to be a huge chubster. Sun and Moon are great games, and if you don't like any of the new Pokémon (noting that the Alola Pokédex has a grand total of 300, with only 80 of them being newly introduced) there's 220 others to choose from.
     
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    #2 Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  3. Almiraj

    Almiraj Black Belt

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    I didn't count Raticate since it's a previous gen Pokémon, it just has a slightly new form that, IMO, isn't really all that much fatter than his normal form, which was already chunky. And Mudsdale? Chunky? ...Sorry, I don't see it. And I think Guzzlord and Crabomidable not being able to take hits they should be able to is kinda BS, really, since design wise they should be able to.

    As for Toxipex/the Tapus, their general bodies are very skinny. I don't count their shells as actual bodies, just shells. They are a prime example of them trying to shoehorn anorexic designs into every niche. (I also didn't include Tapu Bulu because he, actually, is sorta thick but not that much, just too thick to be included.) Same with Celesteele. It's general body is incredibly anorexic despite its shell.

    I think a game coming off as insulting is not a bad reason to not buy a game. Being a lover of big round guys and the fact that there are only a few while having a LOT of skinny Pokémon, and the few bulky designs they DO have suck competitively, including one of those aliens that's SUPPOSED to defy logic. Guzzlord, ultimately, came off as an F.U. to people who like those designs.

    Ultimately, however, I don't want it because the game itself has nothing really all that new to offer besides the Battle Royale, just a bunch of rehashed ideas, removed features and poor end-game content. People are telling me how the new leader battles and trials are so much different, but they're really not. The leaders are just the same except no type restrictions, and their "gyms" are just dungeons. Pokémon Refresh and Hyper Training are just Pokémon Amie and Super Training with the minigames removed, Join Avenue is just a glorified hub with lame step-n-fetch-its disguised as "minigames", the Battle Tree is just another generic battling facility, and Pokémon Pelagio is just a no-gameplay animation where you watch sprites hop around a screen. Sure, you get items from it, so what? Really, Battle Royale is the only truly new thing in the game, and it's not enough for me to buy the game. I may buy Pokémon Moon eventually just for Battle Royale and the Raticate boss, but it's going to have to wait in line.
     
  4. Morgaine

    Morgaine Goddess of Shinies

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    I think you might be a bit misinformed about certain things here.

    • Join Avenue is from Black and White 2. In SM it is called the Festival Plaza and is the gateway to the online multiplayer section. Trust me, we aren't all that happy about it either.
    • Pokémon Refresh has the added bonus of being able to remove status ailments after battle. It is not just a rehash from Pokémon Amie, even if it serves the same general purpose.
    • Hyper training is not the same as the Super Training in XYORAS. Hyper Training can be used to raise IV Stats for level 100 Pokémon. Meaning that a (Shiny) Pokémon that was previously not able to be viable in the meta can be viable now.
    • Super Training is done in the Pelago instead on one of the 5 Islands that all serve a purpose.
    I get that you like a certain type of design for Pokémon. I do, seeing as I have a huge preference for the quaddruple Pokémon, like Lycanroc, and the Eeveelutions. But is is really necessary to basically skinny shame a bunch of pixels, because you do not like the designs?

    Edit: I just remembered that Celesteela is based of the Japanese Myth of the Bamboo Princess Kaguya. The white in her design, that looks like her body, might be inspired by the bamboo part of the myth. The Japanese name is Tekkaguya, refering to the myth in question.
     
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    #4 Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  5. Ryan

    Ryan lasagna bad

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    Careful with the use of anorexic here, to those who used it. It's a very real and painful thing for many people and not a word to be tossed around like this. Please show some consideration towards those who have anorexia, thanks!
     
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  6. Almiraj

    Almiraj Black Belt

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    But at the same time, none of those things really add any real gameplay. As for skinny shaming? My problem is the amount of them compared to designs I liked. That's why I like Gen 1 because there's a lot of chunky Pokémon in that gen. But I also dislike the fact that skinny designs are usually overpowered such as Blaziken, Greninja and Pheromosa while the big guys are always really low tier. Sure there are a few exceptions like Venusaur, Chansey and Clefable, but the fact that even a fat psuedo-legend ends up being awful competitively really does bother me.
     
  7. Morgaine

    Morgaine Goddess of Shinies

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    One possible explanation for "skinny designs" being in the higher tiers is because the designs lent themselves more to speed, instead of the more bulky defensive appraoch you seem to like. I am not really a competitive player, but I do know that more slender Pokémon designs often have higher speed. Something that is often prefered over bulk if you ask me.

    One Pokémon that I really like, and is possible a bit more on the chunky side is Ampharos, but the poor thing is so slow that I find it hard to play with as it is not my style as I am an attacker, I sweep, while a lot of Electric types are quite fast. Compare that one to an Electivire, who actually has decents stats. Or Magmortar. Yes, some designs have been more loved over the years and probably will be loved more over the years. But it is a game. And it will stay a game, one for children at that. I do not think that we really need to debate about designs in terms of "skinny" and " chunky, big". We should be able to enjoy those designs we like, and not shame a bunch of pixels as to how they were designed to be.
     
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  8. Almiraj

    Almiraj Black Belt

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    That isn't always the case, though. Gengar is chunky, but still fairly quick. Scizor, on the other hand, is very skinny yet also very slow outside of Mach Punch and priority moves. At the same time however, most speed based designs are also incredibly frail and easily destroyed by strong priorities, though thanks to Tapu Lele that is less of a problem.

    Also, speed is not as grand as it's made out to be. Yes, you get to attack first if your fast, but at the same time in order for you to really win with a fast character they need to be able to make their first move count. A lot of the faster designs aren't high tier just because they're fast, they also have unrealistically large attack/special attack power. But again, priority moves work really well on them. As for bulky designs? Some like Venusaur and Clefable are designed to be hard to kill thanks to recovery options and buffing. Some don't even take much to set up. Speedsters can be important, but slow yet hard to kill types can also be just as important.
     
  9. Morgaine

    Morgaine Goddess of Shinies

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    Hmhm, you have a point there. Just as important. We need both sides of the spectrum to be able to have a good match. Like you said, there are enough counters to those speedy Pokémon, as they are often to frail to withstand a good hit or two. Probably the reason I fail so often, as I play with favorite designs more often than competitve viable ones.

    The reason Scizor is slow is because it is a Steel type, I think. Only five of them in the base speed top 100, and two of them are Mega forms. They are quite slow. Mega Lucario and Mega Metagross clock out at 112 base speed and 110 base speed. Metagross is a beast, though, in both forms. I love it dearly.

    Anyway, I went off topic big time here. Yes, it sucks that a Pokémon's design do not always fit the stats it is gifted with. I lost many aPokemon because it did not fit my expectations, Lurantis, and I came to love a few Pokémon based on the stats. However, we can try and turn those things into our favor. There is no need to hate a set of Pokémon, solely because they defy logic. Because playing Pokémon is to defy our human logic.
     
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  10. Bubbles

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    I think it's good to have a multitude of designs for Pokémon so that they are in a variety of different shapes and sizes, however I wasn't really bothered by this. In fact, I like a lot of the new Pokémon, even if some are "skinny." Pokémon like Pheromosa always amuse me because you'd think they would be frail, but she is one of the most savage sweepers in the game, and can even be bulky with enough quiver dances haha. Another example would be a Pokémon like Chansey or Shuckle. Both of them are cute and innocent looking, but they are VERY bulky Pokémon that can stall you to death! The contrast is a fun twist sometimes.
     
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  11. Almiraj

    Almiraj Black Belt

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    My problem is skinny Pokémon like Pheromosa are usually incredibly overpowered, while gigantic bulky Pokémon like Guzzlord, even when their status basically PROMISES a powerful Pokémon, end up being ****. I'm honestly starting to feel a bit offended by Pokémon as of late, to be honest. I get people like skinny designs, but they do NOT need to make up almost half a roster and almost the entire OU and Uber tier. There are people who love these big guys like Guzzlord, and it feels like we're getting the middle finger concerning them. The fact that the Ultra Beasts are 4/5 overpowered stickfigures, a powerful jellyfish, a weird drill-faced body builder, and all of them are powerful EXCEPT the gigantic hulking fat-tank, which ends up being a complete JOKE that's rotting in NU tier while 6 of the others are OU, and Pheromosa is in Uber tier!? Pardon me for being frustrated by this, but I am.

    Pokken didn't help my opinion either. A franchise with so much diversity, yet we get...
    Blaziken
    Lucario
    Sceptile
    Weavile
    Gardevoir
    Garchomp
    Braixen
    Darkrai
    Scizor
    Deucideye
    and TWO DIFFERENT MEWTWOS in the same game!?

    Stick figures take up pretty much 3/4tsh of the roster, and even what remains is super ****ing Skinny. Machamp might be a body builder, but despite some muscle structure he's still fairly skinny. Chandelure is all twigs. I mean, I get having an irregular character, but couldn't we at least get one that wasn't spindly!? Suicine is a quadruped, but even THAT one is fairly skinny. Even the two Pikachus and Croagunk are barely anywhere in the middle. The only even remotely chunky designs are Charizard, Gengar and Empoleon, with Gengar being the closest thing to being the token fat character, but considering Empoleon's the only true bulky Pokémon, this makes the roster surprisingly shallow for a franchise that prizes itself with diversity (or at least used to).

    I'm fine with a few stick-figure Pokémon, I just don't want a whole game filled with them, and I'm just sick of them ALWAYS being OP while the big hulking badass tank dudes are garbage. Again, pardon me for being frustrated with the franchise, but as a lover of big designs can you blame me for being frustrated?
     

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