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#BringBackNationalDex

Discussion in 'Switch Pokémon Games' started by Sethal, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Gazi

    Gazi Prismatic Knight

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    I'm not sure how I feel about this whole controversy thing. Because of the way that I play the games (I never trade or transfer Pokémon to different games), this whole thing doesn't affect me personally at all, and I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding why people are getting so upset about it. I'm trying to understand why people are so passionate about having a national Pokédex, but I don't really get it, because it's not something that I've personally had any interest in. I don't really have any arguments beyond that.
     
  2. Chron

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    I mean, there's a lot of people that don't play like you. Many people consider their Pokémon journeys to be centered around the growth and development of their original team through the years. Some people, like me, like to make new teams on each of the new games, and then combine those teams with the old teams and mix n' match them into in-game fun squads. I haven't done that in years, but the point is, everyone plays the game differently, and to many, many people I've talked to, their original mons, mons that saw them through thick and thin as a kid, mean the world to them. They'd be absolutely crushed if this game was the end of the road for them and their beloved critters. And even though my original squad(s) are chilling in the cryo-stasis of Pokebank, I can still empathize with them.

    So I get why this means a lot to people, and I get why it pisses them off. I've already stated how I felt, and while the National Dex absence isn't the biggest thing for me personally, it gave me the perfect opportunity to take a step back and pay attention to just how much I don't actually care for the recent Pokémon games. But hey, that might just be me. I don't want to prevent you from having a great time.
     
  3. Aiko

    Aiko Banana Oni

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    I understand why people are upset about this, but personally it changes almost nothing for me. I know alot of people love sending in their old Pokémon though, so I completely understand why people would be so mad. Especially with some of the excuses gamefreak has had...like balancing. I think that they are being relatively lazy with the whole thing though. Animations so far don't look like its worth the trade of every Pokémon.
     
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  4. ClefairyKid

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    I'm going to get into it, but I'm already jaded about these new changes, that's for sure. Nationaldex is my JAM so... not to mention that this giant Pokémon gimmick will be forgetten in 5 seconds haha.
     
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  5. SyWry

    SyWry Dragon Tamer

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    I do not care one bit about the National Dex controversy. The reason why is because I never transfer Pokémon over. I always make my original teams in the specific game and keep them there. My best and favorite Pokémon are still sitting in my Pokémon white game. I just don't transfer. I understand that others would be angry that this problem exists because I know they have fun with Pokémon in different ways, but it doesn't effect me in the slightest so I have a hard time picking a side. I will say though that you can't have infinity Pokémon in your games.

    One thing I will say in a broader context, is that Pokémon can't keep turning out these games forever. Everyone knows it. I look at the new Pokémon game footage for Sword and Shield and it looks pretty, but nothing else has really changed. Sword and Shield is not the Pokémon game of 2020, its the same Pokémon game from 1990, they all are. Everyone knows this, even the developers know this. Pokémon needs a re-imagining, a soft reset. The original formula was never meant to be dragged out for this long. I see the developers trying to do something with all the gimmicks in the past, but there too afraid of the overly upset fans of this National Dex debacle. Pokémon needs to re-find itself and not be afraid of the hecklers. Listen to, yes, but not be afraid. They need to throw everything in the dumpster and start from the ground up, with a formula that can stand the test of time far better. However, this is all just a wishful thinking tangent. The national dex debacle, is just a silly symptom of a far greater problem that I don't think will ever get solved. One day I'll get so bored of playing 1990 Pokémon that I'll stop buying them...one day, but for today, I still find joy in playing them.
     
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  6. Gwoomy

    Gwoomy french goo

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    Honestly, right now there are just so many arguments and counter-arguments out there that I just don't know which side I'm on. I'm part of the lucky side of the crowd who isn't affected by this, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I'll buy the game... In the many things that have been said, though, there are some I can agree with:
    - this probably shouldn't have been announced the way it was
    - it would be great if the next games could be delayed.
     
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  7. Jeydis

    Jeydis See our power shine.

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    Ive debated this on discord quite a bit so ill just put a resume of my thoughts here. Up top, I am still buying the game.
    > The dex issues are very understandable to me. This is an RPG where you can have a team of 6 among 100s of Pokémon. The more they add the more likely we are to see them limit what is available per individual game. Think of it this way, no single RPG franchise has given you this big of a roster for years and been able to keep up with it. It would be like every final fantasy letting you use every character from previous games in each subsequent game.

    > The graphic issues that people have been in an uproar about have been the same limitations since day 1 and are compounded by the above 1000 models of Pokémon that can use those animations. I agree that more polish could be brought to the Pokémon models themselves but as for the moves, we will never see the level of detail from that compared to a game like Pokken where a very set number of Pokémon with a very limited amount of moves are programmed in. It's just not the same beast. For example, the infamous Blastoise cannons not firing the hydro pump: They would have to pin the animation to a different part of the model just for that. And duplicate it I guess for each cannon. They have the generic placement for attacks because they can be used by so many Pokémon with so many different body types it would be insane to custom it for each Pokémon that can learn the move.

    TLDR: I will still buy the games, I understand the limitations of this kind of RPG. I do agree the base Pokémon models could use more polish but I am really looking forward to playing in a new environment either way.
     
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  8. Wizard

    Wizard Two Crests

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    To clear up any confusion while reading this, I speak from my personal opinion and experience on the Pokémon series, not objectively.

    Anybody who has discussed Pokémon with me in depth will understand that I am not a fan of the overall game design of the series. There are a lot of holes, and I feel that the Pokémon themselves are the main draw, not graphics or a well-written story. I've been looking for an excuse to complete the national dex/collect every Pokémon in a game, and I was looking forward to SwSh as maybe the game to do it in. I was pretty disappointed after hearing about the national dex, and I still am to some extent. Then, I started to realize the actualities of this.

    Pokémon has never been that great of a series to me (says the admin on a Pokémon forum). It's been a casual side game that I play from time to time. I don't think it has ever been my primary series for more than a couple of weeks at a time. I know the graphics are not looking too hot compared to some of the other Switch games, but I honestly do not care too much about graphics and visuals (except Persona 5 and Spiderverse, these pieces of media look HOT). I do not consider this franchise within my top 5 favorites, and I think it would barely scrap its way into the top 10 these days. My affinity for the franchise has gotten lower and lower since I played Gen 5 for the first time. The games are not bad in my opinion, but they are not great either. The fact that Gamefreak is removing a lot of Pokémon is not surprising to me upon further thought and consideration.

    There is a good chance many of my favorite Pokémon will not make it into the game (my good girl Lapras is in thank goodness), and I think that is okay. I'm not trying to make excuses for the company, in fact I think another company should take up the series due to Gamefreak's desire to expand to other projects (topic for another time). This was bound to happen eventually, and it does make some sort of sense heading into a new console. I do recognize that the models do not look stellar and that the graphics are underwhelming, but I honestly do not care all that much anymore. Pokémon has not been special to me for a long time, and it will continue to drop in the ranks of my favorite games. I am okay with this. I have found many other series that have a larger impact on me, ones with great game design and with a lot more fun. Are you a bad person for wanting the national dex? Of course not, as long as you're civil. Are you a bad person for defending Gamefreak? Of course not, as long as you're civil.

    There are a lot of opinions on this matter, and the most important thing to me is not that the Pokémon are missing. The most important thing to me is that I see a community being torn apart in many places. This is Pokémon, folks, not a life-changing factor that will affect our society at large. It's okay to debate this and to have separate opinions, but I do not like seeing the lack of civility that many Pokémon fans outside of Lake Valor have been displaying. This has been a fanbase with many, many, many small disagreements over the years, but I have never seen anything close to this major. Each side has some extremely valid points, and I believe each has a lot of merit. Denouncing the other side and saying that you do not understand them and to "get over it" is not how problems are solved, that's how the argument carries on. The people that want the national dex back have been loud and clear about their side, and those who defend Gamefreak have been vocal as well (also the thousands of little gray arguments within this debacle exist, shoutout to my fellow neutral grounders).

    My stance on the national dex is simple: I wanted Lapras (yippee, mission accomplished) and while the national dex would be nice, it would still not repair my thoughts on the series as a whole. The arguing will likely continue to go on, but I just ask that the fanbase treats one another with respect here (you LV folks have been incredibly civil compared to other websites and I appreciate your maturity with the subject for the most part).

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
     
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  9. Ethereal

    Ethereal Praise Beeg Yoshi

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    I'm firmly on the anti-dexit side.
    If GF can fit 800+ models on a 3DS cartridge, they can fit them on a Switch cartridge. Dexit is just them being lazy. Simple as that.
    Honestly though dexit isn't my only problem with this trainwreck of a game. The graphics look awful, the "high quality animations" look just as bad (if not worse), dynamax looks dumb and is inferior to megas IMO, stupid soccer theme and outfits, the list goes on...
     
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  10. Shayminlover123

    Shayminlover123 Dragon Tamer

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    I was one of those people were very disappointed at first, but that's all I was, just disappointed. However, after seeing multiple conversations about the backlash I realized that this wasn't a deal-breaker for me. In the long run, it's still a Pokémon game and I honestly don't think something like this should break a Pokémon game.

    I played Pokémon Colosseum and this is for those who have never played that game:
    You're VERY limited on the Pokémon you can use in the game. Sure, the game does allow you to use every Pokémon before that, but that's only if you caught them in your GBA game, and if you have the cable to link up to your GC. So this doesn't bug me all that much.

    Overall I'm not going to let this one thing stop me from buying the game. I think I said this before, but this isn't the worst thing in existence. In fact, I tried my best to avoid conversations about it because every single conversation I've seen about it is really toxic and I don't like seeing the fanbase like this. In fact, it's gotten so toxic that people go on to Pokémon's official Facebook and they flood their posts about how they don't like the change constantly. Even if it has nothing to do with Sw/Sh
     
  11. The Eccentric Axolotl

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    I know I'm a bit late on this trend -mostly because I wanted to think it all through before making rash assumptions- and now that I've seen a fair amount of arguments from both sides (good and bad) to get an idea on what I'm going to say.

    Me personally I wasn't initially bothered by the lack of a national dex (or more accurately the fact that not all the pokémon weren't returning). There's 900 plus now and sooner or later you'll begin to ask yourself how many is too many, I know I have.

    That being said, it wasn't until I found out that megas weren't returning, and instead being replaced by these dynamax forms (which to me feels too much like a gimmick that needlessly combines mega and z-moves), and that's what bothered me, because I kept asking myself: 'What are they going to use to make up for the lack of a complete roster and for the ditched battle mechanics people have grown to love?' Graphics won't make up for that. And while I admit that some of it looks really great (ignoring the t-posing wingull and that one tree everyone brings up), it isn't what a pokémon fan looks for in the games.

    Granted the game is still in development, and it's likely they'll have at least some modes to add. Though in of itself that has me asking too many questions as well. Gen 7 in my opinion was one of the most lacklustre when it came to special, non-story modes (battling or otherwise) and the ones they did have either felt like weaker versions of previous modes or just needless gimmicks that weren't all that fun.

    So to summarise, will I buy it? That depends. I already considered giving Pokémon a break once I was in the middle of Ultra Sun. And the only things that have caught my interest in Sword and Shield thus far are the new pokémon, the region (they are representing my country after all *waves miniature Union Jack flag*) the and Galarian forms. And to put it bluntly, I feel like Game Freak doesn't understand what their fans actually want. They seem to think the vast majority of us are young children that won't take difficulty and challenging battle modes (eg the Battle Frontier) as an answer, and they don't give us the modes we enjoy anymore and just throw in stuff nobody really asked for (ie poke finder).
     
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