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Create a Counter [CaC]

Discussion in 'Festival Plaza' started by Achromatic, Dec 9, 2014.

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  1. Achromatic

    Achromatic #TeamMagikarp

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    Deep Sea Scale ★★★Deep Sea Tooth ★★★Star Piece ★★★★Rage Candy Bar ★★★Dragon Fang ★★★★
    [​IMG]Create a Counter! [CaC][​IMG]
    Welcome, let's make a counter!
    Yup, that's it. We're going to make counters, and a lot of them. How? Well let's get straight to that part.
    [​IMG]What are counters? A counter is a Pokémon that can switch in to another Pokémon without trouble and defeat it in singles. Remember this thread is for counters only, not checks.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]This thread is designed for you to post a counter for the previous posters counter set and explain why it counters it and so forth. This can continue on and on, constantly making counter sets for various Pokémon. Whilst it may be debatable whether they work or not, let's try to create the best, most efficient counters possible.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]Rules[​IMG]
    1. Do not base your counter sets on luck, or hax. Relying on luck that may or may not happen is not a counter.​
    2. This thread is for the Smogon OU tier and anything below!​
    3. Your sets must be legitimate ones that you can actually use in a standard OU game. ​
    4. You must post a full Pokémon set, and only counter the post above yours, do not reply to sets that have already been countered. ​
    5. Follow all other LV rules in this thread.​
    Now, let's get it started! Find a counter for this set:​
    Snorlax @ Leftovers​
    Ability: Thick Fat​
    EVs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD​
    Careful Nature​
    - Curse​
    - Body Slam​
    - Rest​
    - Crunch​
     
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  2. 8542Madness

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    I don't know if I'm doing this right, but here it goes.

    Bibarel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Superpower
    - Super Fang
    - Taunt

    That snorlax seems to be built off using curse to biuld up a ridicuous offense and defense, and resting when necessary. Bibarel's unaware makes the stat boosts meaningless, and allows it to use superpower, which is super effective, with no drawbacks to its own defensive abilities. Taunt also keeps the snorlax from using rest to restore health.
     
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  3. YouHoney

    YouHoney Snow wanderer

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    Infernape @ Life orb
    Ability: Iron Fist
    Evs: 4 Hp/ 252 Att/ 252 Spd
    Adamant nature
    -Close Combat
    -Flare blitz
    -Thunder punch
    -Mach punch

    Snorlax is slow, so Infernape will go first. STAB Super effective Close combat+ Life orb will take it out instantly without even breaking a sweat.
     
  4. Wiso Altred

    Wiso Altred Dragon Tamer

    tetsu
    (Ledyba)
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    based off the replies
    Mega medicam@medicamite
    Ability: Pure Power
    Admant Nature
    -highjump kick
    -psyco cut
    -bullet punch
    - fakeout

    252 ATK/ 252 Spe / 4 HP

    Medicam is the only Pokémon that can beat snorlax in oe turn if snorlax had used curse once fakeout+highjump kick should KO him

    If counter acccepted
    Rakiou@lifeorb
    Ability: Pressure
    Timid Nature
    -thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power ice
    -Darkpulse
    -Extreme Speed
    Switching in Raikou would Automaticly OHKO bibarel with thunderbolt


    If counter accepted

    Latois@Life orb
    ability: Levatate
    Modest Nature
    -psyshock
    -dragometor
    -ice beam
    -Hidden power fire
    Latois is sent in and it will ko infernape easily
     
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  5. Spammernoob

    Spammernoob A Spammer or a Noob?

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    Do you guys even know what counters are? :[
    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters

    A counter to LO Latios:
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    T-tar switches in, is immune to Psyshock, and forces a Draco, which doesn't even 3HKO after the SpA drops. Then, Tyranitar can proceed to either Crunch or Pursuit-trap the Latios, which is easily OHKO'd

    Calcs:
    252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 183-216 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    -2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 91-109 (22.5 - 27%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    -4 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 62-74 (15.3 - 18.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 356-420 (117.8 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
     
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  6. Achromatic

    Achromatic #TeamMagikarp

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    Deep Sea Scale ★★★Deep Sea Tooth ★★★Star Piece ★★★★Rage Candy Bar ★★★Dragon Fang ★★★★
    Okay, guys I don't think some of you are understanding how this works. You don't counter former sets, you ONLY counter the set in the last post above yours, so for example what Spammernoob did. Please counter Spammernoobs set, and then counter whoever counters Spammernoobs.

    Like I said though @[member="Spammernoob"], counters can be very debatable, we're not gonna agree with every counter posted but the main point is trying and coming up with the best strategy they can possibly think of. Kudos to those who don't take sets directly out of Smogon, too! Originality is very important here, but even if you do it's fine.
     
  7. guimartgon

    guimartgon Competitive Blog Writer

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    I will be writing a small entry on differences between counter and check to solve questions.

    Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Knock Off
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Can come in on anything T-tar has to offer and return with Drain Punch to regain lost HP/ Knock Off or Ice Punch on the predicted switch.

    I really don't think calcs are necessary, unless you have like a really obscure counter that is.
     
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  8. Spammernoob

    Spammernoob A Spammer or a Noob?

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    lol I hope we can back-and forth, but I bring to you an amazingly obscure counter that no one's ever going to use!
    [3D='cofagrigus']

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Sleep Talk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Rest

    This is a subpar set (TR sweeper is probably better) but it effectively hard-counters Conk. After the initial damage, Conkeldurr can do nothing but watch as Cofagrigus sets up. Crocune just keeps popping up everywhere. lol

    Calcs:
    252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 136-162 (42.6 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 92-110 (28.8 - 34.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
     
  9. Wingmaster

    Wingmaster The Tides of Destiny

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    Wow, a Cofagrigus? It's been a while since I've seen that ghost. Anyway, back to the point, which may or may not be biased because I love Whimsicott, dammit.

    Whimsicott @ Leftovers
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Stun Spore

    Taunt to start, and with that Calm Nature and 252 EVs for SpD, even if the Shadow Ball hits, it won't be OHKOing. Then pop off a Stun Spore and Substitute until Cofagrigus is successfully paralyzed and use a Leech Seed, after which you can Substitute spam to no end. That particular set is well countered by this set, but this set is also subpar in my opinion because of the EV spread and the moves. I really prefer a speedy and supportive role rather than the obvious SubSeed strategy.

    Edit: Even if Cofagrigus had 252 SpA EVs and a Modest nature to boot, it wouldn't do that much to Whimsicott.
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Whimsicott: 102-120 (31.4 - 37%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO
     
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  10. shinygiratinaz

    shinygiratinaz Boats Against the Current

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    So this is my first time building a counter, but I run a prankster whimsicott so I think I cooked up something good.

    Crobat @ ----------
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Taunt
    - Cross Poison
    - Thief
    - Substitute

    I can't outspeed prankster, but I can out play it! Substitute and taunt are in case it goes for a sub or even stun spore first, where my own sub then protects me from all of its other moves and taunt forces it to struggle. Infiltrator makes whimsicott's sub effectively worthless. Thief is to get rid of its leftovers and give me some healing, and cross poison is some nice 4x SE, STA boosted, substitute passing, cold revenge.
     
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  11. Xarn

    Xarn Sponsor

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    Raikou @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball

    Ourspeeds Crobat, and take it down easily. Not too much to say, breaks the substitute if it had one and Resist all the attacks that Crobat has, even if it lose the Scarf still can defeat Crobat.
     
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  12. Spammernoob

    Spammernoob A Spammer or a Noob?

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    I present to you a troll set that should never actually be used: Assault Vest Diggersby (#muchgimmick)

    Diggersby @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 Att / 112 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Quick Attack
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    This set abuses Diggersby's fantastic(not) 84/77/77 Defenses to make a very powerful Assault Vest user. 112 Speed is to outspeed standard, 44 speed Rotom-W and hit it with a nice, strong Return. Fire Punch is for Skarmory, Ferrothorn, etc.
    Quick Attack is just to bop low-health 'mons.

    Before you go and say, "Aw Spammer, HP Ice is super Effective, you n0ob," look at these calcs:
    252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Diggersby: 102-120 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO


    252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Diggersby on a critical hit: 152-180 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

    And also, Return 2HKOs defensive Rotom-W: 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


    lol Obviously HP Ice barely 3HKOs, and you don't need proof that EQ can OHKO. so... yeah! :D It can even live 2 crits if they're not high rolls.
     
  13. YouHoney

    YouHoney Snow wanderer

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    Diggersby tho.

    Mamoswine @Life orb
    Ability: thick fat
    EV's HP 252 ATT 252 DEF 4
    Adamant nature
    -Ice Shard
    -Icicle spear
    -Earthquake
    -Stone edge

    My personal Mamoswine for Glisgor and Landorus. Thick fat removes Mamoswines Fire weakness. Ice shard is priority and Icicle spear handles any possible substitudes. I haven seen a Ground type surviving this.
     
  14. Rafael

    Rafael Math Geek

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    Cooler Gary Oak ★★★★★Star Piece ★★★★Dragon Fang ★★★★Deep Sea Scale ★★★Deep Sea Tooth ★★★
    Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Iron Defense
    - Scald
    - Calm Mind
    - Slack Off

    With 180 base defense, Slowbro-Mega obviously counters Mamoswine. Switch in on an Ice Shard/Icicle Crash, Mega-Evolve, use Scald (with Slowbro-Mega's 130 base Special Attack).

    0 SpA Slowbro-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 326-386 (90.8 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

    Or set up some Calm Minds in preparation for whatever comes in next while Mamoswine dies from Life Orb recoil. I dunno why anyone would keep their Mamoswine in on a Mega Slowbro tho. haha
     
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  15. Drag0nK1d

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    Virizion @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Taunt
    -Calm Mind
    -Giga Drain
    -Focus Blast

    Because that set does not have Ice Beam or Psyshock, Virizion can taunt it for free, take only about... 15% from Scald, and do w/o a boost a good 54-62% with giga drain.
    When taunted, it cannot slack off the damage so it will be forced to switch out.
     
  16. YouHoney

    YouHoney Snow wanderer

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    Virizion? Please!

    Mega-Pinsir @Pinsirite
    Ability: Aerialite
    EV's: 4HP 252Att 252Spd
    Adamant nature
    -Quick attack
    -Swords dance
    -Close combat
    -Earhtquake

    Also my personal Pinsir build.
    Vizirions biggest weakness.... 4x Flying. Pinris's Quick attack Doe's 175% and priority. Also this thing resists everything Virizion has.
    Guy never stood a change...
     
  17. Rafael

    Rafael Math Geek

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    Cooler Gary Oak ★★★★★Star Piece ★★★★Dragon Fang ★★★★Deep Sea Scale ★★★Deep Sea Tooth ★★★
    Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Volt Switch
    - Air Slash
    - Thunderbolt

    Rotom-Fan is immune Earthquake and takes very little damage from Quick Attack and Close Combat:
    252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 37-44 (12.1 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO
    252+ Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 56-66 (18.4 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO

    It can easily switch into Pinsir and 2HKO it with Air Slash/Thunderbolt (or Volt Switch if you want).
     
  18. Spammernoob

    Spammernoob A Spammer or a Noob?

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    [3D='camerupt']​
    Camerupt @ Cameruptite​
    Ability: Solid Rock​
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA​
    Quiet Nature​
    IVs: 0 Spe​
    - Rock Slide​
    - Fire Blast​
    - Earth Power​
    - Iron Head​
    M-Camerupt is immune to 3 of Rotom-F's moves, and can easily tank Air Slash ​
    4 SpA Rotom-S Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 82-97 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 6% chance to 3HKO
    Meanwhile, Rotom-F easily dies to any of Camerupt's moves​
    252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-S: 262-309 (108.7 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Sheer Force Camerupt Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Rotom-S: 174-206 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  19. Prosecutor

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    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 4 SpDef
    Nature: Bold
    -Hydro Pump
    -Confuse Ray
    -Volt Switch
    -Will-O-Wisp

    While being immune to ground attacks, it can resist Fire Blast and Iron Head. Good counter imo.
     
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  20. The Unknown

    The Unknown Collector

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    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 204 SpA / 36 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Seed Flare

    This bulky, offensive shaymin outspeeds rotom-w and takes advantage of its coverage by resisting both of its attacking moves and being able to block a Will-o-Wisp, then it can proceed by either using leech seed or seed flare, both of which Rotom-w can't handle. And, if Rotom-w happens to burn Shaymin, then Shaymin can always switch out and heal itself with its ability.
     
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