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Entry Hazards

Discussion in 'Festival Plaza' started by Bubbles, Oct 26, 2014.

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  1. Bubbles

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    Mewnium Z  ★★★★★Ice Stone ★★★★Heart Scale ★★
    Entry Hazards are moves that are put into place on your opponents side and remain to effect their team as their Pokémon are switched out. Some examples of entry hazards are Stealth Rocks, Sticky Web, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. Entry Hazards can play a big role in competitive battling and it is common to see teams that either use them or counter them. Abilities such as Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, and Levitate can help reduce the effectiveness of entry hazards, while moves such as magic coat, rapid spin, and defog can aid in removing or preventing them. Do you use Entry Hazards for your competitive teams? Are there certain Pokémon you use to set them up or remove them? Or do you prefer not to use them at all?
     
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  2. Hraesvelgr

    Hraesvelgr Snek in Your Boot

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    I don't really have any competitive teams, but I got a Steelix on my X game that I use as rock setters, but other than that I'm not using entry hazards all that much now that I think about it.
     
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  3. Butternut

    Butternut The Coolest Spider

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    Mewnium Z  ★★★★★Black Glasses ★★★★Red Orb ★★★★★Ultra BallCrown of Valor
    Entry hazards are great when you use them, but they're so annoying when they're used against you, so I prefer not to use them, because I know how annoying they are. Although since I tend to have trouble with Charizard, I always have a stealth rock user on my team (usually Ferrothorn).
     
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  4. Kitsune

    Kitsune Fox Demon of Illusion

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    Entry hazards... You love having them around the enemy, but hate them on yourself. In competitive I like to use a skarmory. It is sturdy and will at least get rocks up, if not some spikes on top of then. Personally I run no rapid spinner, but some tea of mine carry an espeon with magic bounce. Hot return to sender and set up screens.
     
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  5. Halcyon Storm

    Halcyon Storm Joking motive

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    Meh, I could live without them, but they can be pretty damn useful at times. Having some rocks or spikes up for your opponent might just give you that little extra bit you needed to win the battle. But, as I said, they're just little things, not really a huge deal to me.
     
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  6. DIO

    DIO KONO DIO DA!

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    I run a Shuckle with Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, and though they are useful, especially Sticky Web, I'm seriously considering not using them for a Rapid Spinner or Defogger. It's really, really annoying when they Defog me after fainting my Shuckle and set up their own hazards, and I can't do anything about them.
     
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  7. Greninja'd

    Greninja'd Bug Catcher

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    I hate entry hazards. They are annoying. I don't really like using them either, unless one of my sweepers needs the support.
     
  8. BluuCrayon

    BluuCrayon Bug Catcher

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    I dont use them much!
     
  9. BadPandaPancham

    BadPandaPancham PKMN Breeder

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    Not having entry hazards or hazard control is one of the biggest no-nos in competitive battling. They are one of the defining features of the metagame that will probably never change, because there is no real drawback in setting them up, especially if they could do 50% to a Talonflame that does damage to itself already, and huge damage to other Pokémon. There are a lot of great hazard setters, but mainly it depends on the tier. In OU, Skarmory is great for either stacking spikes, setting up SR, or acting as a hazard clearer with Defog, even though having Defog on your hazard setter is a little contradictory and shaky.
    Here is a list of great OU hazard setters (keep in mind Sticky Webs and Toxic Spikes aren't used much in OU due to there being a lack of good mons in the OU tier with these moves):
    • Heatran
    • Skarmory
    • Ferrothorn
    • Tyranitar
    • Clefable
    • Excadrill
    • Mamoswine
    • Landorus-T
    Defog is a strange move as it eliminates your hazards, but is much more reliable as Rapid Spin can be blocked by Ghost-types. Both hazards and hazard removers are pretty much necessary on any team.
     
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  10. Srinator

    Srinator Bug Catcher

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    A competitive team that wants to mean something isn't a competitive team without stealth rocks. Stealth rocks in simple words is one the most over powered moves in the game, not only does it break sash of every mon out there but also provides means to beat what would otherwise be terrifying mons for ou (see talon and mega zards). The art hazard stacking has been reduced somewhat since the start of xy ou mainly due to the Defog boost. But we still see teams with anti-defoggers like bisharp etc that try to do what stall teams did back in gen 4 and 5, although most of them fail cause they plain suck.

    Also saying spikes aren't used cause there aren't good spike setters in ou is wrong, see skarmory,ferrothorn,Greninja,klefki,cheshnaught etc
    Sticky web teams still exist but tend to suck cause of flying spam.

    Also the list of good stealth rock users isn't something that can be written up, the main cons pet rn is to give rocks to something that can't be predicted and set it up while the opponent switches, see chansey,clef,sharp etc.
     
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  11. BadPandaPancham

    BadPandaPancham PKMN Breeder

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    @[member="Srinator"]
    I didn't say Spikes sucked, I said Toxic Spikes aren't used much due to a lack of good TSpikers. Not Spikes. The hazard setters I listed included Spike stackers. Also Chesnaught isn't that good in OU, so that shouldn't be mentioned as a viable stacker. Same thing with Greninja, it is already a glass cannon and can't take hits, but taking up a moveslot limits Greininja's coverage greatly. Also yes the list is something you can write up. Not only did I list Clefable already, but Bisharp and Chansey with SR are bad. The main concept has nothing to do with something that can/can't be predicted. That is 100% false. Giving SR to those mons limits their roles and movepools greatly as both suffer from 4MSS (4 moveslot syndrome), since they have so many moves/sets to run. The reason there is a list of good SR are because they reliably set up SR easily. You should also reread what my list consisted of and what I said was included in it, because I didn't just list SR setters, even though a list can in fact be made up for them.
     
  12. Drag0nK1d

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    Luckily most of the most reliable rock setters in OU also can serve a second role if need-be.
    Mamoswine can break walls if Life Orb, Landorus can help weaken physical attacks for a wall to come in, Smeargle can utilize sleep fodder (I personally use Dark Void for the grass mechanics) and sticky web up if you're running hyper offense, and Hippowdon for a straight wall. Just as a few examples.

    One of the main reasons you can run a spikestacker is if you're running Dragon Tail, Roar, Circle Throw, Roar, essentially any move that shuffles your opponent's Pokémon. Problem there is Levitate is a thing and Defog's mechanics, again, removes all hazards (and screens, oddly enough).
    Good pokes in OU and Ubers to help spikestack include:
    Klefki (Prankster much?)
    Ferrothorn (already mentioned by Panda)
    Forretress (despite being UU, also can rapid spin)

    Toxic Spikes is nowhere near as reliable as it used to be because of immunities to toxic, the fact Fairies are around so Poison-typing is more commonly used so goodbye toxic spikes, you immediately activate Guts-users (Hello Conkeldurr!) and again! Defog.
    Doesn't help that there are... 2 reliable toxic spikes that can be used in both OU and UU, that also used to be OU in gen 4? Those 2 being Forretress and Roserade.
     
  13. Pari

    Pari poyo

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    I myself don't use them a lot. I run a Rapid Spinner Excadrill, but I never use it that much for favor of stronger moves. I'm working on a strategy that'll hopefully lessen the problem of SR for me!
     
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  14. Srinator

    Srinator Bug Catcher

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    @[member="BadPandaPancham"] saying chansey and Bisharp aren't good rock setters cause they would suffer from 4mss is bonkers, not only do u have 5 other team mates but chansey is also a very reliable rock setter owing to it's amazing walling capabilities. You can't dismiss a mon completely by saying it isn't viable for the ou tier. I fact cheshnaught used to be amazing since it can stop specs gengar and the once formidable aegi. Chesnaught still has a very good niche in the tier due it's unique moves, also greninja is a very common spike stacker now-a-days since it outspeeds and spikes helps it become a ground mon. While I agree that greninja is amazing in a full out offensive role I would not mind a more specialised greninja for a well built team.

    Entry hazards may be many and there are many individual mons that carry the stacking process but in the end it's a team play and the distribution should be proper and synergetic while also carrying the main purpose of the team which can be anything he builder intends it for.

    Due to the amount of switches and free turns Greninja generates, it has many opportunities to use Spikes to support its teammates and inflict more damage. Hydro Pump provides great power and coverage, and Ice Beam serves as a good alternative main move to Hydro Pump. Ice Beam typically KOes common users of Defog, including Latios, Latias, and Mandibuzz, that might switch in to remove the entry hazards on the field. Extrasensory is an alternative option to reliably hit Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and most importantly, Tentacruel. U-turn is somewhat complementary with Greninja's chosen entry hazard, as it allows Greninja to escape Rapid Spin users on top of other usual counters, though it sacrifices precious killing opportunities due to inferior power and coverage. Hidden Power Ghost can also be used to turn Greninja into a spinblocker; however, it is significantly inferior to other attacks in terms of its overall power, coverage, and usability. Toxic Spikes is also worth considering to wear down defensive targets such as Chansey; however, keep in mind that Toxic Spikes are generally easier to remove and do not affect Pokémon with the ability Levitate.
    Spikes Greninja is best suited for offensive teams where dedicated leads or hazard layers such as Smeargle are unwanted. Greninja differentiates itself from these archetypes due to its outstanding offensive presence. Furthermore, by forcing switches, it provides itself with setup opportunities. Spikes Greninja should be paired with offensive Pokémon that benefit from grounded checks and counters being worn down

    Source:smogon

    You are welcome.

    P.s. Excadrill sucks as a rock setter.
     
  15. Synthesia

    Synthesia Bird Keeper

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    Entry hazards such as stealth rock, toxic spikes and sticky web are my favorite.
    the Pokémon doing those set up moves will eventually take a 2- 5 hits
    most of them are slow, and they are defensive. but i dont use them much, because in doubles
    there are 4 Pokémon meaning that there are less switch outs. there are
    many counters to it like rapid spin, magic guard,ability defiant for sticky web, magic bounce etc. when it's a real
    stally Pokémon, use toxic spikes. then roar comes out, but it almost everytime moves last.
    i perfer amoongus and meowstic for set up, but not these entry hazards.
    but so many counters, i dont use it.
     
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  16. Spiffy Stache

    Spiffy Stache Bug Catcher

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    Entry hazards are always a good thing to have and can certainly have a big impact on a battle, (stealth rock halfing charazards HP, sticky web slowing down your whole team). But are not nearly as essential as strong team comp and good decision making.
     
  17. BadPandaPancham

    BadPandaPancham PKMN Breeder

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    @[member="Srinator"] I just said it limited it's offensive potential on Greninja. While yes, Spikes isn't "bad" on Greninja, I just find plenty of other mons much more reliable and safer in running Spikes. Spikes on a Spikes Greninja isn't even used a lot of the games that it goes into, since the situation has to be great for you to use it. I just want you to know that Extrasensory is used mainly for Mega Venusaur, definitely not mainly for Tentacruel which is already extremely rare.

    SR on Bisharp and Chansey really is not good. Chansey needs the moves it does, and it still is set up fodder at times. Seismic Toss is one of the only things that keeps it from being set up fodder completely. With SR taking up a slot, you have to sacrifice something like Wish/Soft Boil, Heal Bell, Protect, Seismic Toss, Toxic/Thunder Wave, etc. which removes a lot of the reason why you would run Chansey over someone like Ferrothorn. There are just much better SR setters. Same with Bisharp. If you run something like LO/SD Bisharp, SR is just a bad move. It limits you to what, Stealth Rock / Sucker Punch / Iron Head / Swords Dance or Substitute? Sucker Punch is not reliable as it has low PP and is only used in certain situations. Knock Off is almost necessary to use with it. Knock Off is also not very use-able alone as Bisharp needs the priority in order to function well. Scarf (which already is a shaky set) doesn't want SR as you'd need to switch right out because of being choice locked. Black Glasses Bisharp is still pretty bad with SR because usually Black Glasses is used to take advantage of all three Knock Off, Sucker Punch, and Pursuit at once. Iron Head is used as the last coverage move. I don't see where it would be good to slip in SR. If you want to run a normal LO Bisharp or so with SR, Sucker Punch, Iron Head, Knock Off? Still not good. You also can't just use the "you have the other 5 teammates" argument because that's exactly why you shouldn't run SR on these pokes, you have the other 5 teammates to have one of them do it.
     
  18. Drag0nK1d

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    To add on panda's reasoning:

    The idea of using spikes on a Pokémon like Greninja, with how it's designed to be used, seems like a bad idea.
    You are going to suffer from four-moveslot syndrome in that case, even with protein boosting u.
    You will want that fourth attack. Even if you are focus sashed, you're giving up power, and even if you're willing to, it's too situational.
    Stealth Rocks on Bisharp also suffers from that problem. Four-moveslot syndrome. You will have to give up a coverage move (such as low kick), give up a STAB, or a setup move (I personally like using substitute to protect against burn).

    Seriously, why would you want to deal with four-moveslot syndrome with pokes like what was mentioned when there are pokes that aren't afraid to deal with it?
    Case and point Mamoswine and Garchomp. BTW the following example is if ur using offensive SR.
    Granted the latter you would have to give up a coverage move (especially if u wanna run lum berry and swords dance), but still. The typing and its stats do more than enough, while the former you would give up Knock Off (which can work, although there are admittedly better knock off users) or Superpower. It's nowhere nearly as much of a loss for them.

    There has to be an issue with your team if you literally turned chansey/blissey into a SR setter instead of a special wall/cleric (which btw, I count Wish as a clerical move).
     
  19. guimartgon

    guimartgon Competitive Blog Writer

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    Stealth rocks are a must in pretty much all good teams in my opinion. Without them you'll have to face Multiscale Dragonite with it's ability activated, Talonflame can U-Turn around freely, and you just don't hinder your opponent's team as much.
    I've had a lot of people tell me they don't do that much damage but just think, how many times do you switch in a battle? If both players know what they are doing the answer is probably no less than 20, that's 20 times Stealth Rocks deals damage from 6.25% to 50%. If your opponent has a team where EVERYTHING resists stealth rocks(none) that's still dealing 6.25X20= 125% of damage dealt from a move used one turn.
     
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  20. BoB backwards

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    I don't usually see them outside of singles (and then it's always rocks.) This is probably because you don't switch as much in doubles. I have an Excadrill on my OU team to Rapid Spin away rocks when they show up, and a few of my Pokémon know stealth rock themselves (although I don't use it that often.)
     
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