Genders outside of the binary.

Hmmmm... tricky topic i must say.

I have met a few people, who do identify themselves something other than male or female, but they really didnt want to talk about it. So i guess i must go with what i know. And my opinion is constructed on a scientific base, so please no one get mad at me, even though opinions are told to be criticized.

To identify themselves something other than the scientifically proven genders, never really made sense to me personally. I can understand if, say a girl identifies herself as a male, since that is just simply brain experiencing themselve differently than the body does, so its (And i am using this next term non- offensivily) "malfunction" in preception of itself. Its not wrong, i am not saying that, but to body to act like that is not really "beneficial".

But to experience itself as a gender outside of the two male and female is an odd phenomena as far as psychology goes. To think that you are a gender that doesnt really exist in biology is like experiencing grass as a colour that doesnt exist. So purely based on logic, everyone should identify themself as either Female or male, since there are no other options.

Also from laws and languages perspective, if people i dentifies themselves as something else than male or female, wouldnt that make the world a bit more confucing as it is. Or should All languages change themselves to be gender natural like Finnish is? (In Finnish there is only "Hän" in place of He and She.)

I am really sorry if i offended anyone, but these are just my opinions based on science. And the wonder of science is that it changes its ideas based on what is proven and observed, so if you can correct me, that would be hugely appreciated.

I wanna see this conversation go on ^^

 

I can give you a very short answer to that. In my opinion, I don't think there's anything wrong with those kind of people. Truthfully, I think the world would be a much better place if everyone can accept others for who they want to be. What harm are they causing to society anyway that they need to be punished for? There's no harm, really. It's their choice, and if it will make them happy, then go ahead.

I'm a straight person so I can't really give you an answer from the heart. But whenever topics like these come up, I always try to put myself in their shoes. I want to be understand how they are feeling.

We all just need to accept that at the end of the day, these people are still humans and they are normal. I would rather see a happy gay man than a sad male who's being forced to go against his heart. I'm sure you would too. If we accept that they are all just like us, I think everyone on Earth is going to be a thousand times happier.

 

I'm not sure if anyone is actually 100% on one side of the definition of a particular gender (other than Ron Swanson, of course). I think we all have at least the smallest portion of our psyche that fits more into what society would call the "other" gender's archetypes and roles. True, the vast majority of us are probably more than 99% on one distinct side of the gender definition fence, but quite a few people are close to 50-50, or simply fit a personality or self-identity that conflicts with their anatomy. However, on at least one level, I agree with YouHoney that gender is strongly connected to biology and that there is a clearly-defined normal: after all, men and women (defined by their anatomy here) have different levels of several hormones that influence their behaviors, and these behaviors (which are influenced by hormones which are influenced by anatomy; there's just two little degrees of separation here) are what create our concepts of gender roles.

To illustrate my view of non-binary gender... are you (hypothetical person) a man who is less manly than Ron Swanson or John Sullivan, even by a little bit? So you're 99.99999999% manly (aka male)? That's pretty darn manly if I do say so myself. Might I ask what that remaining teeny-tiny little slice is? No matter what trait is filling that tiny slice of your identity, I still think you're one heck of a manlyman by cultural and psychological standards, and that you've totally got a good grip on the fact that you are indeed a man, inside and out.

I used to hang out with, how to say, a man who has lady-parts in him. He has a uterus and ovaries and all that stuff, and no penis or testes, but still wanted to be addressed as "he". And that was cool with me. I'll call people whatever they want to be called, it's their own deal. I think the world would be a more comfortable and accepting place if we all did. But he isn't a-gender or non-gendered, he just identifies as the one that his biology doesn't match, making him transgender (thanks for the vocab clarification, YH)

I don't know how true this is, and I'm not in a mood to do research on the topic, but feel free if you want to do so in my stead. I've read that many groups of Native North Americans actually held non-gender and transgendered people in higher esteem than the usual folk, because it was believed that they had two souls inside of them, explaining why they seemed roughly 50-50 along gender lines or some other psychologically non-usual state (either they have a soul that matches their body and one that doesn't, and that one is more visible; or they have those two souls that are equally fighting to be visible). These people would be encouraged to follow spiritual or leadership roles because of their gifts. Kind of the opposite of modern America, where these people are sometimes seen as pariahs.

As far as YouHoney considering the linguistics of gender, I heard some people trying to make new pronouns for English that would refer to anybody regardless of their gender or lack thereof. If I recall, the word of choice was "per" and "pers", short for "person", and used in the same way as her and hers. "I borrowed this flash drive from per. So no, it's not mine, it's pers." Similarly, some Swedish schools (primarily in their equivalent of Kindergarten right now) are trying to avoid their "hon" and "han" (I think that's what I learned Swedish pronouns to be) when teaching their students to speak and write, and are instead trying to use "friend". That sounds like choppy word choice to me, but maybe that's just to be blamed on the article's translator.

 

You could have asked me! I'm non binary myself ^^ (You guys can call me "she" if you want still, though I prefer "they")
I know and interact with many who are also non binary, and my doctor supports me whole heartedly. I'm not overly dysphoric, but I do feel I should have a body different from my own.
The reason we don't want to talk about it? We'll be hounded with questions, we'll be insulted, we'll be told we're wrong, and it hurts. I already know I'll get like 5 notifs from this with people telling me I'm not or asking me invasive questions.
This is just my perspective though.

 

I'm not sure about other people, but whenever I say those, it sounds like Her/Herself...

 

Ok, thanks for clearin that up xD

 

I'm transgender myself, so I know the problems...

 

*Blows the dust off of the topic!*

I was born a genetic male and identify as a male. I'm often told that I have many feminine personality and physical characteristics by other people (more so online than elsewhere), so I've been subject to the "she" and "her" pronouns before. I've never found myself offended by someone else's use of pronouns to describe me, as I simply fit a different idea that they have in mind; not everyone can necessarily agree on anything. However, the only people that I personally know that are genders outside the binary are online. (I don't entirely consider my transgender step-brother, as he clearly defines himself as a male.) Everyone is free to interpret themselves as they wish--they have the right to. If anyone has a problem with the pronouns I use for them, I hope they correct me, as some have in the past!

 

Like @[member="Kouhai"], the only transgendered people I know are on the Internet. That said, I know quite a number of them, which surprised me. I didn't think there would be so many, and they've told me what it's like, and it's saddening. It's terrible how opposed some people are to it and the lack of open minds is sad indeed.

As for pronouns, there way too many. There's over a dozen! This might come of rather rude but if the binary can survive with two, I don't see why those outside need so many. I understand that there are many categories outside of the binary to which people can fall but there's almost twenty pronouns! I'd rather not need to memorize all of them to avoid offending people. >~<