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Is Ash Overrated?

Discussion in 'Pokémon General' started by 122 Generation, Jun 4, 2016.

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Is Ash Overrated?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    58.3%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    41.7%
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  1. 122 Generation

    Belle
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    I have kept up with Pokémon for about 13 years now, and of course I grew up watching the animé as well. With Ash being the hero and all.
    But I grew up in the time when R/S/E were released, and while it slightly annoyed me at first when Ash started taking on Sinnoh, I noticed that there was really no progress in Ash at all. He will continue to face limits which he should have easily overcome at this point.
    At first, granted, he would always have struggles starting as a beginner, hence the Kanto and Johto adventures. The Hoenn region, I will grant that. As for Sinnoh, I regard Ash as a failure.
    Because marginally, Ash should easily have been able to dominate pretty much anyone in his way.

    You would think that with all those months (if not years) of training and an impossibly experienced Pikachu, he would have conquered every league by now. But no. Whenever he faces new Gym Leaders, he always has to struggle to defeat them.
    Not to mention he has to approach almost every situation with a new perspective as well, which puts his maturity and mastery at Pokémon into doubt. Overall, he has to take to approach into each new region as if he were a brand-new Trainer just starting out. Such characteristics make this character overrated.
    He may be this character that is the embodiment of being the hero with a sense of justice, but that is not an excuse for Ash to advance further - something he is unable to do.

    The other problem is I find the story is waaaaaaaay too centered on Ash, in short. We continue to see a constant character whose personality simply is no longer interesting.
    In other cases regarding the manga counterparts, the characters much more dynamic such that they simply aren't boring. Marginally, anyway.

    The Pokémon Adventures Black and White manga presents a completely different character and storyline than that of Ash's. We see Black - a dreamer like Ash, wanting to be league Champion - who is forced to repay White a year's worth of paycheques to her acting company. Unlike Ash, there is major character development seen in Black and White as the story progresses. Over time, Black's relationship becomes less of an obligation to repay his debts and more of a desire to continue working for White. At least we see that kind of maturity.
    Why, he even said he wanted to continue working for her! As time went on, though, when he became mixed in the mess with Reshiram and Zekrom, we see this crushing state of Black wondering what he had gotten himself into.
    Not to mention in Black, he faces a moment where he questions the state of his dreams when his partner (Musha) merely leaves him in his time of need. As a result, Black simply just collapses out of self-failure.
    We don't see this in Ash. At least not anymore.
    To put the hammer in the nail, Black merely 'dies' at the end of the story. Courtesy of Ghetsis. And this happened in front of White's eyes. Just how much more heartbreaking can that be?
    You do NOT end a story with the main character dying. You simply just don't! Although there is a Black and White 2 manga, I have yet to see any updates. As far as Black and White was concerned, it just left it like that. Black dies, White is left broken, and Team Plasma makes their escape. The end.
    That is NOT how a Pokémon story ends, but to its credit it is the finest story I've seen regarding storyline and character development. We never see this in Ash anymore.
    So in these reasons, I hold Black with high regard.

    For equal reasons, I see Ash as a pretty overrated.
     
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  2. Pokémist

    Pokémist Trashcan

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    On most of the part you are right. The whole anime is series is revolving around Ash. But i think anime started as a story of a boy (Ash), his journey to become world best Pokémon master and here we are. They cant just push away ash from anime and another character. To become world best Pokémon master he has to defeat all gym leaders of every region and it is what he is doing in anime so far. As in regard of maturity, he is not that 10 year old boy any longer from my point of view. Agreed he makes silly mistakes but with the passage of time he learned to care for his Pokémon and handle things more seriously. If we take it real life situation, what do you expect from a 10-15 year old boy. Do you think if we give him a small puppy and adk him to take care of it and travel through different regions, he will take things seriously and will avoid mistakes. Also, the creaters of Pokémon anime are keeping ash in character. They cant just change the personality of ash in an instant. Ash is learning and will learn even more as he will progress in his journey. And saying of manga their story , there are different parts of it. One series is this,and the other is this. And in anime they are taking journey of Ash, who will prove himself to be the best Pokémon master.

    So in short i dont think Ash is overrated.
     
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  3. Wizard

    Wizard Do you feel it? The moon's power!

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    With the way that modern Pokémon fans view Ash, I'd say that Ash is actually a little underrated. Sinnoh Ash was amazing, and there wasn't a fair way to stop him in the tournament, so the anime people pretty much just screwed him over by adding Tobias, who had a Darkrai and a Latios. I'd hardly call that a failure, really. I'd call it "divine intervention", and by divine, I mean the show creators. In fact, the only reason Ash isn't OP is because of divine intervention, and the constant need to keep the show going under a popular name. If Ash was supposed to win in the other regions, then the writers wouldn't have written it as it was. As for the end of Ash, and him finally becoming the trainer that everybody wants him to be, I think this may just be the time. Think about this: Ash has caught 5 Pokémon in Kalos, all of which are fully evolved, and just look at what Pokémon they are: Ash-Greninja, Hawlucha, GOODRA, Noivern, Talonflame. I mean, Greninja is one of Ash's best Pokémon to this day, Goodra may just be Ash's most powerful (even though it was released), and the rest are respectable. Pair these up with Ash's old Pokémon, and the anime writers may just have a way to write Ash out of being the main character in Pokémon, and pass it to... Sawyer. I mean, I'm speculating as of this point, but Sawyer looks like he could be a good future protagonist for the anime. The one aspect I will agree with you on, is that we perhaps have seen too much of Ash. The real question is, will the anime be more successful with Ash, or another trainer. In the end, that's what matter to the show writers: feedback, how much it is watched, and what people think about it.

    I think you should take a look around the internet and see what people say about Ash, I'd hardly call him overrated these days.
     
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  4. Dashing Dom

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    I'm not sure what popular opinion of Ash actually is, as to whether he's over or under rated, but as a hero he's deeply flawed. He overcomes every obstacle by getting determined, then swears he'll be better than ever... And learns nothing. He'll do the exact same thing all over again. He's blessed in a completely unbelievable way to always arrive in the heart of some sort of action - it's the annual this or the once in a lifetime that - so, although I'll admit it's a little hard to blame him as a character for that, it should make him the most interesting man alive. But he's incredibly one dimensional. I think the first post in the thread is spot on, that he's barely developed at all. It's disappointing.

    Dislaimer: I'm not nearly up to date with the series and generally have a chip on my shoulder about him. :D
     
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  5. 122 Generation

    Belle
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    I'll point out that I have no objections to Ash's personality in itself. I'm only saying that marginally, there is little more Ash get really get out of Pokémon. As well, there's no dynamic development in his character - over the long-run - as opposed to pretty much everyone else.
    Consider how the studios swapped out Misty, Brock, May, Iris, etc... Okay, perhaps Misty and Brock might have been just as guilty as Ash is, since their benefit is also marginally gone, but not as bad as Ash. Even with swapping out female characters in the anime, let alone the males, there seems to be no objections. After all, they are the ones who face The lone exception is Ash, of course.
    So when he makes an appearance at almost everything Pokémon related (with regards to the anime) these days, I don't know what to make of him.

    In the same sense, there are no problems with a character change in the manga either. There are constant character changes with respect to the game they're based from, and it's refreshing to see everyone's journey of maturing, and their personalities of course.
     
  6. Watcher

    Watcher School Kid

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    You are right about Ash being overrated. I loved his Kanto and Johto saga, but afterwards he just got... stupid. Seriously Ash, your level 100+ Pikachu just lost to a LEVEL 5 SNIVY. I don't care that Pikachu was without electricity, that thing could probably take out a Tauros with its Iron Tail! Yeah, unfortunately Ash has been ruined by his refusal to progress... as for the Black and White manga, I enjoyed it enough. I suppose it's just me, but I enjoyed the original manga with Red, Green and Blue, and Yellow as well (Yellow's my favorite character!) a lot more. But you're right, at least the characters in the manga progress.
     
  7. eeveeongirl

    eeveeongirl Collector

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    I think it a little unfair to be angry about Ash's lack of progression. He is the face of the anime and frankly he isn't the first character to not change throughout a show. Plenty of cartoons centered around the age group that Pokémon is focused on choose not to, Spongebob and Timmy from Fairly Odd Parents never showed character growth and no one cared. I get that things are changing now in cartoons and that yeah maybe Pokémon needs to catch up but I don't see the problem. In fact i think that XY and XYZ episodes are some of the best since johto. The themes are nice and the story is actually intriguing because I can't guess what is going to happen next, which is exactly what I look for in shows. Ash himself is slightly more mature too, far better than he was in black/white and I like his personality, he is how I would expect a 10-15 year old boy to be and yeah he isn't going to win a league but who cares? He just has to keep trying, I mean come on he beat the frontier that's awesome! (on a side note, I'd like to remind people that in the anime battles are much more difficult and not you know turn based, so Ash losing to gym leaders is to be expected) Honestly I wouldn't mind Ash getting swapped but I get the show's "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" attitude. Ash is a character that any kid can relate to so he works.

    As for comparing Ash to the Adventure's characters, that's also slightly unfair. If you read the manga you can see that it is meant for slightly older readers not the kids that watch the show as intended. The author of Adventures can take such risks with characters and do more dangerous things with them, kill a character? Sure! But the show can't get away with that. And they are going for different angles, the anime's plot rarely lines up with the games while the adventures lines up slightly better so it makes sense for these characters to switch with each story.

    So no, I don't think Ash is overrated, he could go but I don't mind him staying​
    But I would not be upset if they could make an Adventures Anime....I would probably love it.​
     
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  8. Palamon

    Palamon Silence is Purple

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    You all...underestimate Ash, tbh. If anything, he's underrated. Let's be honest. :x I mean, sure, it's time for him to be retired, but I wouldn't say he's "overrated."
     
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  9. Rafael

    Rafael Math Geek

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    I think they want to keep the anime going forever, which is why Ash isn't improving that much. Also, there is big difference between Pokémon in the anime and in the games. In the anime, there doesn't seem to be a concept of "levels". While Ash's Pikachu should be like level 9999 right now, it isn't like that in the anime. I think they want to give an impression that all Pokémon are equally powerful, which is why Ash has a hard time defeating gym leaders every time.
     
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  10. DoctorFlygon

    DoctorFlygon myagical girl

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    honestly, i think the contrary - ash, at this point in time, is really rather overhated.

    whenever i see/hear people bring up ash in discussion it almost always seems to be in a negative light, usually being about how red is "so much better", how crappy the unova saga was, etc.

    so, perhaps at one point in time this might've been true, but that's like saying everyone worships gen 1 on the internet because a few years ago "genwunners" were everywhere on the internet; nowadays those types of people are immediately jeered by most fans and gen 1 is widely viewed as being a glitchy mess, or at the least almost everyone accepts that calling it the factually best Pokémon generation is a load of hogwash. so i don't think it can be reasonably said that, at least among Pokémon fans and the internet, ash is overrated.
     
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  11. Teddybear2345

    Teddybear2345 Which is cooler, to be cool, or uncool?

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    I think Ash as a whole is largly misunderstood.
    As a person and a trainer.

    Sure he was created with flaws, just like anyone else on the show.
    But to me. He has a goofy greatness to him when he battles.

    and I mean by that. He doesn't always choose the right strategy or make the wisest move.
    He has a likeable fire to him. a burning passion to win
    and I think most people can relate to that.

    So I wouldn't say he is overrated...

    more like misunderstood a lot.
     
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  12. ~Nova~

    ~Nova~ Birby Friend

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    So, I don't/can't watch the anime often, but when I do, I can barely enjoy it because personally, I can't stand Ash. He keeps saying he wants to be a Pokémon master and all that- he only caught about... around 50 Pokémon? I don't know. He has no character development, struggles in battles that should be easy for him at this point, etc. Maybe it's just where I'm looking, but I never see much Ash hate. Some may argue with me, and that's fine. Everyone has their own opinions. Thank you for proving I'm not alone, though!
     
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  13. TripleAAABattery

    TripleAAABattery Look at my fluff! LOOK AT IT

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    All right, so I've been catching up with the anime more recently, and... tbh, I don't really think he can be called overrated. From what I've seen of the XY/XY and Z series, he's really been on fire lately. There's not much more here I could add that would help, though, since most of what I said has already been discussed by the others.
     
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  14. Alan

    Alan Bug Catcher

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    The current problem with ash is that he is way overused. He is the protagonist and all but ive watched him for my whole life and im getting bored of him and would like to see a change in the protagonist but it prob wont happen due to it beign so recognised
     
  15. Watcher

    Watcher School Kid

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    @[member="Alan"] Truth be told, you're absolutely right. I'd at least like to see him do something new, but he's done everything XD
     
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