1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Lake Valor!
    Catch, train, and evolve Pokémon while you explore our community. Make friends, and grow your collection.

    Login or Sign Up

Gen 5 Kanto copycats in Unova

Discussion in 'Other Pokémon Games' started by Absolute Zero, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero The second seal

    Level 19
    Mar 17, 2015
    Something that's been bothering me for a long time is how Unova seemed to filled, absolutely filled with Pokémon that were suspiciously similar to Pokémon native to Kanto. Here's a list that doesn't include some obligatory things, such as the starters, first-route rodents/birds, a high-evolution level Dragon, or a fire-thunder-ice triad of legendaries, a Pikachu variant, fossils... and other things that are usually repeating.

    Three-stage Rock and three-stage Fighting, both of which level up to reach their second phase and need to be traded to reach their final evolution?

    A near miss of the same thing: three-stage humanoid Psychic, three-stage incorporeal Pokémon slowly gaining a body.

    How about a pair of matched humanoid martial artists?

    Very rare normal-type associated with healing?

    Pollution brought to life in two evolutions?

    It's pretending to be a Pokéball!

    Three-stage industrial man-made Electric-Steel Pokémon (exception for Magenezone included in this list originating in Gen 4; also every part of the Klink family in Gen V learns an equal-or-greater number of Electric moves as Steel) that gains more parts as it evolves?

    Annoying cave-bat with only two stages for now?
    Two-stage digging rodentiform?
    Three-stage blue tadpole which gains limbs?

    ... and I could go on with looser comparisons, like there being a pair of bugs one friendly-looking and one angry-looking, or a Normal-typed horned bovine, the supposed coincidental return of annoying and defensive jellyfish, criminal-seeming humanoids of Drowsee and Scrafty? I'd be lying if I said I didn't think Gensect was an attempt to dethrone Mewtwo as the new lethal man-made legendary, and one could even make an argument that the three monkeys were made as a competing triad to the Eevee family with separated first-forms.

    So what's my point? It feels to me like Gen 5 may not have been the rebirth of the series that it deigned to be, but was almost a replacement, at least with its species. Yes, I know there are repeating themes sometimes, like how Gen 3 got another useless fish that turned into a very powerful serpent, but it seems overwhelming and conspicious.

    How do you feel about this pattern? Am I imagining things, or is this just a side effect of having limited possibilities, or did Kanto even *deserve* to be even more fully replaced for some reason? If you were at the head of Game Freak or another part of the minds behind these creative decisions, would you have said "Pause, why do I feel like I fell through a portal into 1997? We need to push the brakes and make changes."?
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Glitxel and Laserdragon14 like this.
  2. Glitxel

    (Mew Egg)
    Level 10
    Feb 15, 2019
    Poké Ball ★Potion ★
    I remember seeing the comparisons to the Woobat line and the Zubat line a long time ago along with the Gothita-Abra and Mewtwo-Genesect comparison but I did not realize the similarities go much further than that! I did remember hearing somewhere that during Gen 5 it was almost like Game Freak was doinh some kind of reboot with the series and in a way this proves that idea.
  3. Pika

    Pika Hiker

    (Mew Egg)
    Level 29
    Mar 22, 2019
    ah man, i've heard of the reboot theory, but i've never seen it laid out quite this obviously.

    i've kinda gotta wonder what they were aiming for by doing this, if they did it on purpose. though it seems more and more like they did when you consider that there were almost no Pokémon that weren't native to unova in black and white -- an interesting concept, lorewise, but metawise is hmm!
  4. ReagentNein

    ReagentNein School Kid

    (Eevee (KS))
    Level 2
    Oct 23, 2016
    Oh boy first post and it would be a too long ramble on Gen 5 stuff wouldn't it?

    From what I remember reading, Gen 5 was meant to feel like a fresh new region having all new Pokémon and starting the route numbers over from one, yeah. I'm not really sure how it's a replacement (or a rebirth) though. Like, Gen 1 is never being replaced, could never be replaced, there's too much bank on it. Anyways I'm just gonna throw down my thoughts on the topic as a whole.

    (I'd like to say right now though, I don't know jack about meta, so I'm mostly speaking about base design and concepts as I think of them.)

    You find bats and rocks in caves, so it feels natural to me to make Pokémon based on that for those areas, which is why you see the same Zubat and Geodude across four gens which made going through caves (for me at least) incredibly boring. They've never had to make new Pokémon to fill those roles, so here we get new ones.

    With Audino and Chansey, in places like the anime you need a Pokémon who is the pokecenter Pokémon, so they make a Pokémon to fill the same niche. Principles like that I think guide a lot of figuring out what kind of species go places, and so there's similarities. (Sort of like in real life evolution but that's a hot topic for another day)

    I wouldn't say that explains all of it of course, the Gurdurr and Boldore parallels to me being especially striking. But others, like the parallel with the Abra and Gothitelle line, yes it's there, but Gardevoir, as a three stage humanoid psychic-type, came first. Human forms are associated with intelligence, so it's a natural fit to make psychic types human-like. (See also, Hypno, Mr. Mime, Mewtwo, Slowking, Jynx, Medicham...) With Reuniclus and Gengar being paralleled, I'm not sure how solosis is incorporeal? I always saw it as just, a very large cell. Aside from that the only major similarity I see is the three-stage evolution.

    The last thing I sort of want to point at is with making this region exclusively new Pokémon to fill the entire thing out, it means a lot more Pokémon are made which are a lot more instances where similarities are found. (especially filling similar roles) There's balances in deciding how many two and three stage evolutions you give, what your obligatory version exclusive counterparts are, how you spread introducing new typing and strength levels throughout the game etc that factor in as well.

    Again, I don't think all the parallels are unwarranted, and yeah I'm pretty sure gen 5 was going for the feel of gen 1 and used some similar concepts, but I think it's unfair to call it a replacement gen, especially looking at the bigger picture of all the new species Unova brought us.

    TLDR: Yes I think there's a good amount of similarities for various reasons, and somewhat intentional, but I also think to some extent there's an amount of confirmation bias in picking out these patterns.

Share This Page