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Lake Valor League

Discussion in 'Festival Plaza' started by East, Oct 22, 2016.

?

Do you want to see the league return?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    92.9%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Don't really care either way

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. Apawn

    Apawn Modern Gen 2 Artist

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    Shiny QuilavaQuilava
    Totally, I'd admit the way takeovers are in my current league is a bit too easy... I kndof wanted to see the effect of it and if it get more people to join.

    But yes, a learning experience this league must be for everyone, I think it be interesting if the Brains or some other role of the league would competitively mentor the members....
     
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  2. East

    East Look to the Stars

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    I don't think there's a problem with emphasizing this. It'd be a way for the competitive mentors group to be alive in a new incarnation, and it's also a great way to ensure that we are constantly trying to improve the quality of battlers in the Lake.

    Going to tag @[member="Leviathan"] to get her thoughts here, as she's now the Battle Frontier moderator, and she may be the staff member overseeing the league if it is allowed to come to fruition.
     
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  3. Reckless

    Reckless Won't take the easy road

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    Ayyyy. Time I chimed in, I suppose.

    I'd be more than happy to A-OK a new league, long as members consistently show an interest in it. On that note, I'll give my two cents on a few issues raised here;


    • Might I suggest badges become seasonal then? In the sense that they'll expire after a length of time (say, for example, a season), and will have to be re-earned again?
    • I would be more than happy to take the lead on this, as long as those involve work with me. I will admit straight out that I was never a great competitive player, but I can certainly put things in motion for those interested.
    • Perhaps tiers can be replaced with another organisation system? Maybe work out a 'banned Pokémon' or 'limited use' lists, restricting certain OP Pokémon and move(s) / move combinations
    • Similar to the badge expiry suggestion, League members may also change in a given period (perhaps every six months or so)

    A tier system would be interesting to try, and would certainly accommodate players who are, say, 'silver' tier players who are not that good at battling compared to say 'gold' and 'platinum' tiered players but still wish to take part in the league.
    On that note, how about a tier system is worked out, 'ranking' players based on win / lose percentages and placed into their respected tiers accordingly (those tiers possibly being bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond)?

    Yeah! This ties in with what I was thinking of nicely ! Well done!

    Sighting the note bolded above, I am open to suggestions of a different difficulties based on the calibre of challenger applying to do battle. For instance, what do you all say to two divisions for now: a 'junior' division intended for players new to competitive battle and don't necessarily know all the jargon or can tell what EVs are from IVs, and then you'll have a 'senior' division that would welcome back past league members in addition to those accustomed to comp matches.


    A format other than singles will depend on numbers. For now, I'd prefer if we could construct a decent, singles league before introducing doubles and other formats.

    Some things I am noticing are mentions of 'Yuki League'. Is this an external meta? If so, I'll allow you guys to mention it and perhaps suggest what cues our league here could draw from it but I'd prefer if you don't explicitly mention 'go check it out', as it will detract from what we're trying to bring about here, in my opinion.

    I cannot say how soon it will be until Valor League is up and running, but I am hoping to get things going before christmas (and early into Sun/Moon's release, if not before). Battles will primarily take place on Showdown, to make things simpler and easier to collect replays of.

    I'd prefer to oversee a few 'frontier brains' than work with a stacked gym leader team. Less is more, in this case. And ah this, this is exactly what I mean! I do feel that introducing seasonal expiry dates will reduce the chance of the league stagnating again.

    The Emerald Battle Frontier had leaders that came with their own setrules / challenges one had to get through in order to face the Brain.

    At a guess, a ratio of 4 challengers to 1 'frontier brain' might be a nice start, with a limit of 4 frontier brains and perhaps 1 'grand master' who could be to the frontier brains like the champion is to the elite four, only the 'grand master' would only make special appearances for a limited time throughout the year, perhaps near the end of a season. (the grand master themselves could be selected from the current frontier brains, after winning a best of 4 battles with each other frontier brain member)


    Nice summary! Everything sounds fine, but again that 'multiple tiers' idea - I'd agree to it in the sense that it's there to separate members based on their battling history, with newbies / beginners starting in bronze rank and moving up through the tiers after x number of wins. (they could also drop down a tier, if the number of losses they suffer outweigh their wins).

    I do not know yet if I'd like to see a Smogon-esque tier system for Pokémon themselves, and would kind of prefer to invent something new (possibly following a 'banned Pokémon' / 'limited Pokémon and/or move(s)' / 'unlimited Pokémon' format).

    7th Gen mons may not be used in the 1st season (depends on how fast Smogon or some other sight can crunch the numbers on what the new mons are capable of doing), but once we are familiar with the new Pokémon, they will be there for the second season and onwards.

    Another one: I'm going to have to think on the 'credibility' condition. Not sure what to make of it at present.

    Perhaps new Frontier Brains for new seasons could be selected from the four top scoring league players last season?

    As for the possibility of mentoring foes...that option can be on the table, as we did have competitive mentors in the past. ....I think a kind of FAQ / 'Do's and Don't's' style thread might work out better, though.

    Do bear in mind that I'm not sure yet on what the official word on the possible revival of the Lake Valor League is. But yeah, I'll be happy to oversee the running of it.
     
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  4. Reborn

    Reborn Signature Creator

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    Wow it's great to see you'd be willing to oversee the league if it were to be revived :)

    Just a few things I thought of while reading your post (not necessarily aimed at you just things I'd like to discuss).

    I'm not too sure about deviating from smogons tiers. In terms of regulating and balancing a singles metagame I think they've done a pretty great job, better than any group of individuals could on here. The rules are also coded in to showdown itself, meaning there would be no need for setting up custom games. OU should set up any necessary initial bans by the time the league is set up, and I think any complex bans such as prevention of the use of certain abilities and moves would just get confusing for newer players. It's also not a good representation of what they're likely to see if they start playing outside of the league, which I think should be encouraged if we're trying to get the newer players in to competitive. I think what Kouhai is getting at is that the fact that it was LV OU instead of standard OU was a turn off for people, and we would have the same issue again if we made another ruleset. I would say just stick to OU, while having certain limitations (such as less than 6 Pokémon etc.) depending on the difficulty. One tier, two difficulties and a 4:1 challenger to frontier brain ratio seems like a good place to start and see whether people would like the introduction of some of the lower tiers in later seasons once the tiers have been established and people have a general feel for the league.

    A ranking system could be interesting, though honestly I wouldn't include it in the first season, since it would be much easier to set up once we have an idea of how many people will be participating in the league. At least putting them in to tiers. We could rank people by win loss, but people will have different numbers of battles and that would be skewed. I would say that a ratio of 10:1 should be ranked lower than a ratio of 30:3 since the higher ratio is more consistent over a greater number of games, but what about a ratio of 10:1 compared to 29:3? The second player still has shown consistency through those 32 games, but they have a lower win/loss ratio. It encourages people to play until they get a loss and stop there as to not cut their ratio in half. I also think it's important to make sure that how well a player is doing shouldn't be available to other players if this is the case, otherwise we might see players simply trying to outscore the highest ranked player instead of just playing. I don't know if I explained myself very well there but hopefully you got the gist. If we did the thing I was suggesting similar to the battle spot system where you start with a certain number of points and gain/lose points when you win/lose, with the amount being determined by the difference between your initial points and your opponents points. That still represents how many battles you have won and lost, while also taking in to consideration who those losses and wins were to.

    I think an FAQ in general would be a good idea, not just for competitive but as an explanation of what the league is about. But I was getting at having more of a tutor role for those in the lower difficulty tier. They could suggest movesets that could have been more effective, potential team member changes, what moves they made that either didn't make sense or they had a better option and just generally how to play, like what to lead with, identifying win conditions etc. Most of these things are personal and probably couldn't be covered in a single post. I could probably write an article on EV spreads alone if I was trying to include all of the information I would like to. For people who want something casual and not necessarily to improve, that would be fine too.
     
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  5. Apawn

    Apawn Modern Gen 2 Artist

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    The Yuki League is something I am running on the league, it was really a test to see how interested people of the forums were to a league and trying to make it different by (Originally making it) 3ds based, credibility and so on. It ultimately had failed, but I think the ranking every player "Credibility System" is the good thing that should be taken from it and move on with this league. @[member="Leviathan"]

    I agree with @[member="Reborn"] in the OU case, I myself in my league had XY OU and ORAS OU which would be cool to see in 7th gen if there is that much of a drastic difference, none-the-less.

    The Credibility needs to be like Showdown with the "Points" as Reborn said, do to ratios being able to be thrown off by small changes
     
  6. Xarn

    Xarn Sponsor

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    Hey guys! It has been a long time! (Almost an eternity if you ask me).

    So, I read every comment to see the same problems again. After a long time I find that you are searching the same public: competitive players, It is not a problem of ideas or decisions, it is about marketing.

    I like to search the point, those that know me can say it and I like to explain for hours even if it's not necessary sometimes (yep, sadly). I will give an example to make myself clear and maybe offer a solution:

    So, lets say that you have 10 persons that like Pokémon and lets say that from these 10 you have 6 (maybe 7) that like to play the Game Series (Yellow, Ruby, Black, Y, OR, etc). Got it? OK.
    NOW, lets talk about these 6 persons that love to play the games, fight the gyms, kick the villain [yes I am talking about you Team Skull, you little rap boys > :(], catch Pokémon, find items, search for their favourite Pokémon (and also use it even against the hard counter just because is your favourite and you don't care about spending 5-10 potions, lol). All these stuff is under the same thread: the PROGRESS. They like to see their Pokémon grow up, getting level, learning new attacks and facing stronger and stronger opponents without caring too much about maths, science or the meaning of universe.

    Here it comes, the reality. From these 6 persons, that enjoy the game in these way, you only have 2 (with luck 3 -and I am being the most optimist player in the world-) who also like the competitive side of the game. If someone knows about where I am trying to reach, don't ruin the surprise because I already said it when I am started my post XD: you will only have 2 from 10 that will pay attention to a competitive event, league, gym, etc. (2 from 10, 20 from 100, 1256 from 6281 members of Lake Valor).

    I will take this:
    And I will say: I absolutely LOVE the answers.

    • Might I suggest badges become seasonal then? In the sense that they'll expire after a length of time (say, for example, a season), and will have to be re-earned again?. Yes, in these way after a month, you will have to face the gym leaders again :D (elite four should be a little longer since it is hard to reach)
    • I would be more than happy to take the lead on this, as long as those involve work with me. I will admit straight out that I was never a great competitive player, but I can certainly put things in motion for those interested. Competitive or not, my suggestion is for all of us. I mean, we can create the system where competitive and no competitive players could be together. I will ask you guys: Have you ever wanted to play with a friend of yours but your knowledge about the game was too different? (note: good friends play no matter what but if their have a way to enjoy it the same could be better right?
    • Perhaps tiers can be replaced with another organisation system? Maybe work out a 'banned Pokémon' or 'limited use' lists, restricting certain OP Pokémon and move(s) / move combinations. Removing competitive items and just leaving the berries to use the real strength of the Pokémon. (Some would say that a few Pokémon could get out of meta but it is not about meta game, it is about playing the game and Leagues as they are on the games and TV)
    • Similar to the badge expiry suggestion, League members may also change in a given period (perhaps every six months or so). Yes (using the classic Gym Leader Tryouts maybe), or maybe create a rotation between the current ones. In that way the styles will switch and the battles would be more fun and exciting. Every time there is a new gym leader you will need to play different since you don't know how he or she will play with that type (Still prefer Mono type without Wild Cards) :D
    Personally about creating tiers for the players will be another system of rules that will simply confuse the public (remember we have a public of 15 years old from below too that like things soon and faster!).
    The system that I am thinking suggest the next basic rules:

    • LEVEL CAP CLAUSE: Every Gym would have a level limit for the Pokémon and Trainer's Pokémon will have the same level (For Example if you go against the Flying Type you will use only Pokémon at level 20). One does not simply reach his first gym with a Landorus-Therian level 100, Choice Scarf, perfect Nature, perfect EVs, perfect IVs, tutor moves, old generation moves and such.
    • ITEM BAN CLAUSE: A little from before. I won't be facing the first/second gym leader with an Assault Vest Tangrowth when my mom is still sending me money from the next village. Only Berries allowed.
    • TRAINER PROGRESS CLAUSE: The data is stored in an Excel spreadsheet or some similar program to determine the progress of each trainer. In this way, members of Lake Valor will have knowledge about the badges, attempts at each gym, and other relevant information about everyone's progress.

      Art.1: If a Trainer faced a different Gym Leader because the original was out, this will be included on the Excel. Note: If the Gym Leader that was out is still unable to participate in a Trainer's Progress (or more) and also being unable to successful obey the Art. 2 from the GYM LEADER OUTSIDE CLAUSE, the situation will be analysed by the staff (They should determinate what to do since there are important factors like Timezone, Responsibility, Testimony from other members or leaders, how Trainers have their Progress incomplete because of these Gym Leader. This could mean the demotion of the Gym Leader in extreme situations [not responsible, attitude, etc] or simply determinate a temporary substitute [timezone situations maybe])

    • GYM LEADER OUTSIDE CLAUSE: If you want to face a Gym Leader (Bug for Example) but this one is busy, out of home, or has been out for a long time, or the timezone is the opposite you can always ask for another one.

      Art.1: Every Gym Leader no matter type should be able to replace their companion using the same team or a different one but always keeping the LEVEL CAP CLAUSE and using the type of the Gym Leader that is out.

      Art. 2 The Gym Leader (Bug) that is out will have the responsibility to replace the other Gym Leader (Dark) when the Trainer reaches that Gym.

    • EVs and IVs CLAUSE: It is not allowed to use EV since it is absolutely competitive and is a concept that many players still don't know. IV's will be at 31 in every stat and will only be lesser when the Pokémon has the Hidden Power Move.
    • MOVES CLAUSE: Every Move that the Pokémon can learn is available.

    • LEGENDARY Pokémon: Not allowed (Maybe at E4).

    • TRAINER'S TEAM COMPOSITION: At least one starter, having the possibility to have a team of 6 Pokémon without caring about the types. Trainers can modify their teams after losing against a Gym Leader 2 or more times. Trainers are able to mega-evolve after beating Gym Leaders
    • GYM LEADER's TEAM COMPOSITION: Up to 4 Pokémon following the Monotype method and being able to Mega evolve at every stage of the League. Gym Leaders can use more than one team to take challengers. In this way the challenges will last regardless of whether information is filtered from the teams of gym leaders since they can be always different.


    Composition seems balanced for me in this way, but it is still a system open to modifications. Clauses can be added or modified. Also it would be needed to bring some rules back like: a limit of 1 try per day or 2 days when you are facing a gym leader. As always the trainer will send the team to know if it is approved so they won't be needing to read with too much detail the rules. It will demand a lot of effort from the League Members to give the perfect service and always being there, but that's the way you get a position here; with effort, a good behaviour and the love for the community.

    In this way I think that Lake Valor will open its arms to the players that always saw the League as a difficult and unknown part of Pokémon or even something that they don't like.

    Maybe some will think that it is easier or that it will be full of persons challenging with no real competitive ideas. But it is about including more people and bringing more opportunities to those that always said "I...I would like to face Lake Valor's League with my Skitty". We see Ash sending his Pikachu against Mewtwo after all XD.

    What I am trying to say is: Let them be. If someone wants to bring his Caterpie against @[member="Kouhai"]'s Gym




    [​IMG]


    Gym Leaders will always receive the challengers and will always be ready to say the proper words. To help the trainer to become better. (No refunds of Caterpies, sorry)

    Finally, I want to say sorry. Because if this system applies, I will use Miltank on my Gym muahahahaha!!! XD

    [​IMG]

    Nice to see you guys!

    EDIT: This is for a kind of in.game league that could be managed by the same leaders that manage the competitive league.
    It would mean 2 badges for the same type but being part of different leagues. Rules will be different for the competitive league and both leagues will be available for everyone :D
     
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  7. Martsian

    Martsian Gym leader

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    I just want to battle guys! Open league, i have some new ideas about the new Pokémon.... :D
     
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