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Leech Life.

Discussion in 'Festival Plaza' started by TheBlazingInfernape, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. TheBlazingInfernape

    TheBlazingInfernape Gone, probably forgotten

    Wildfire
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    Leech Life? LEECH LIFE? Come on Infernape, be serious here. But reader, I am serious, VERY SERIOUS. In Sun and Moon, Leech Life is a TM and it replaces Dig as the new TM29. My only thought of why Leech Life is a TM, is that it is getting a massive power boost. I am thinking maybe base 40 as opposed to 20. Ok, so why discuss this? Simple, a friend of mine and I had a discussion about this and in the discussion two Pokémon were brought up. Those two, being Scizor and Beedrill. If we end up with Leech Life Scizor and Beedrill. Oh dear. Leech Life heals 50% of damage done which is something Beedrill needs to stay alive and be powerful. Scizor may have Roost but this move is a free move slot for coverage. I have done base power calculations for a Life Orb Scizor with Technician and a Mega Beedrill both with the standard base power and the rumored boost.

    Normal Base Power
    20+10 (Technician Boost)= 30 x 1.5 (STAB)= 45 x 1.5 (Life Orb) = 67.5 Base Power
    Rumored Base Power
    40+20 (Technician Boost)= 60 x 1.5 (STAB) = 90 x 1.5 (Life Orb) = 135 Base Power (stronger than a non-STAB Megahorn)
    Normal Base Power
    20 x 2 (Adaptability) = 40
    Rumored Base Power
    40 x 2 (Adaptability) = 80 (As strong as non-STAB X-Scissor)

    Beedrill's may look rubbish, but if there is one thing both Pokémon love to do, it's to set up Swords Dance.
    Multiply this with a x6 Attack Boost and you have devastating results.
    So what are your thoughts? Comment down below and I'll see ya later.
     
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  2. TripleAAABattery

    TripleAAABattery Look at my fluff! LOOK AT IT

    Gottem
    (Eevee (K))
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    I think the boost for Leech Life will be more than 40. I think it could go up to 60, or even as strong as Drain Punch/Giga Drain if they wanted to.

    Oh, and Life Orb doesn't boost power by x1.5, only x1.3 :P
     
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  3. Reborn

    Reborn Signature Creator

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    I feel like there really isn't enough information to suggest that Leech Life is going to get that much of a change, and even if it does it wouldn't effect either of the two mons you mentioned (unless it gets raised to 50/60 base power). Bug Bite is still by far the best bug type move for Scizors that run a bug STAB. Bulkier Scizors don't have the moveslot for it, prioritising roost and Knock Off or U-turn. The recovery gained from leech life isn't worth replacing roost for, Knock off is just a broken move that neuters almost anything it touches and U-turn is used to gain momentum. And for more offensive sets where Bug Bite might be used, the difference between 90 and 60 base power is huge. I would argue that even if leech Life became 50 bp it wouldn't be run. And as for LO Non-mega scizor, it's just not used in the current meta. Of course the meta will change, but making assumptions on that based on a slight increase in base power that may or may not happen seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

    And as for Beedrill, just no. Beedrill needs 3 of its four moves (being protect, u-turn and poison jab) and there are so many more better options for its fourth slot (Knock Off, Drill Run, even swords dance which is practically never run). Beedrill is a glass cannon. The only damage it should ever be taking is hazards or when your sacking it. Other than that you want to bring him in safely and hit them with a strong U-turn or Poison Jab when you know it will KO. I suppose the health could allow Beedrill to take a few more stealth rock hits, or you could just remove the hazards for it and the rest of the team.

    And other than these I really can't think of anything that would prefer leech life over X-scissor. So yeah, I think unless they made it 60 base power it will still be an awful move.

    Oh and if you let a Beedrill get to +6, you deserve to get swept. Or any Pokémon for that matter.
     
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  4. Weedle Enthusiast

    Weedle Enthusiast Resident Weedle Enthusiast

    Best Boi
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    If it gets boosted to 60, it MIGHT be used on bulkier Crobats instead of X-Scissor. But I see no way that it will be super common on standard sets.
     
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  5. Reborn

    Reborn Signature Creator

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    What Crobat uses X-Scissor? Lol. Anyway, between Black Sludge and Roost, Crobat has enough recovery, and a non-STAB 60 base power leech life from a bulky Crobat isn't exactly going to be recovering any health.

    So yeah, I still don't think it'll be used much, which sucks because I think its a cool move :(
     
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  6. East

    East Look to the Stars

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    100% agree here.

    I really don't see Leech Life getting more use unless the base power rises to 60 BP, and that's really unlikely. Heck, there's no confirmation of the move getting a BP boost at all, so it's better to sit tight.
     
  7. TripleAAABattery

    TripleAAABattery Look at my fluff! LOOK AT IT

    Gottem
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    Leech Life got a huge boost. Now it's Base 80 power, which may make X-Scissor useless if they didn't give it a significant buff.
     
  8. Reborn

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    Really now? Okay that makes things interesting. It still won't contest with U-turn on any bug types moveset since the primary benefit to that move isn't damage.

    Currently, right now there still aren't any Pokémon that are viable that get access to this move and could abuse it (it would be amazing for bulkier Volcarona sets if it were special, but it's not). The Pokémon with the highest base attack stat which would get STAB leech life would be Parasect at 95, which isn't viable.

    So really it depends on whether there are new Pokémon that get the move or which old Pokémon will now learn it (I know its a TM so i assume a lot of old Pokémon will).

    Not really much point in speculating how it will effect the metagame at this point. I would say that bulkier Scizor may consider Leech Life over Bug Bite if it got access to it since the 10 higher base power might not be significant in picking up important KOs. Other physical mons like Heracross, Scolipede and Escavalier probably favour Megahorn over Leech life for the pretty big base power difference outweighing the accuracy and health recovery. But yeah, we'll have to wait and see.
     
  9. TheBlazingInfernape

    TheBlazingInfernape Gone, probably forgotten

    Wildfire
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    LEECH LIFE IS BASE 80?! OMG. How in gods name did I predict a game changer?
     
  10. TheBlazingInfernape

    TheBlazingInfernape Gone, probably forgotten

    Wildfire
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    OK. This calls for new calculations. Since it is Base 80 as opposed to 20, Technician won't effect this move.
    Any Bug type with Life Orb STAB means this move has a new BP of 156. This surpasses non STAB Megahorn.
    Any Bug type with Choice Band STAB means this move has a BP of 180. EXACTLY THE SAME AS A STAB MEGAHORN.
    Mega Beedrill with Adaptability means this move has a BP of 160. Surpasses non STAB Megahorn.
    Damn, this is getting scary.
     
  11. Cadbberry

    Cadbberry Dad: 76.... Or Cad: 76

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    Marshadium Z ★★★★★Love Ball ★★★★★GS Ball ★★★★★Mewnium Z  ★★★★★
    The huge buff this got is almost unbelievable, 80 base power... that is just taken this to a real threatening move... I hope to god this stays balanced, I mean it had to have replaced dig for a reason but still. This is a bit much XD
     
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  12. Morgaine

    Morgaine Goddess of Shinies

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    Crown of ValorSoothe Bell ★Heart Scale ★★Ice Stone ★★★★
    80 base power, now that is game changing. I used to loathe the move because it was so weak. But now it could be a lifesaver in some cases.
     
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  13. TheBlazingInfernape

    TheBlazingInfernape Gone, probably forgotten

    Wildfire
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    Maybe not in competitive play but in single player this move could be amazing. Now Crobat has a good base 80 Bug move.
     
  14. Captain Comet

    Captain Comet Fallen Star Baby

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    Basic Gary Oak ★Rage Candy Bar ★★★Jaw Fossil ★★★Galladite ★★★★
    Okay, can somebody please confirm for me whether or not Leech Life actually DID get a boost? I don't have the game yet, and Bulbapedia still says it just has 20 bp.
     
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  15. Reborn

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    Yes, it got a boost to 80 base power.

    Here's a list of Pokémon that get Leech Life that will almost certainly use it as their STAB move of choice.

    Buzzwole
    Golisopod
    Araquanid
    Ninjask
    Ariados
    Parasect

    That's according to showdown, I'm not sure if this includes Pokémon that may have gained access to the move from it being a TM this gen. To my knowledge, neither Beedrill nor Scizor learn it.
     
  16. Bubbles

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    Mewnium Z  ★★★★★Ice Stone ★★★★Heart Scale ★★
    Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Leech Life
    - Power-Up Punch/Hammer Arm
    - Earthquake/Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    - Fell Stinger

    Been testing this out and it's pretty scary tbh. If you can get a KO with Fell Stinger(now 50bp), you get an attack boost of +3 and +1 from Beast Boost. Leech Life does massive damage and heals pretty well even if it resists. Buzzwhole has naturally high defense(139) and hp(107) so an assault vest helps give it bulk to its frail 53 sp.def to about 80. Power Up Punch is another option to prepare a sweep.

    Its main weaknesses are Fire, Psychic, Fairy, and a x4 to Flying. So having EQ, Stone Edge, or Rock Slide can help with coverage.
     
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  17. Reborn

    Reborn Signature Creator

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    I don't know about AV Buzzwole. It really doesn't seem like it allows it to survive any important hits that it otherwise wouldn't be able to, and running so little speed makes its match-up against common defensive Pokémon like Rotom-W and Lando a lot worse (well common in ORAS, who knows for S/M). I would personally run at least speed to outrun max speed modest Heatran (while granted they're usually Timid, I have seen max speed modest and that speed also secures some pretty nice outspeeds such as adamant Bisharp and Banded ttar, as well insuring that you outspeed the defenisve Pokémon like Skarmory that can outspeed you currently with minimal investment). At that point you might as well run max speed to ensure you at least speed tie with opposing Adamant Buzzwole, since it's only 12 EVs. Without a boosting item, Buzzwole fails to pick up some important KOs.

    A few calcs using ORAS sets since the meta isn't developed yet
    It doesn't pick up the 2HKO on bold Clefable with Poison Jab (something else that i would recommend running).
    252+ Atk Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It fails to pick up the KO on tank chomp with Ice Punch
    252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 240 HP / 172+ Def Garchomp: 304-360 (72.9 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 240 HP / 172+ Def Garchomp: 395-468 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    It doesn't have the chance to KO AV Azu after rocks like LO does (having a much higher chance on CB and BD sets)
    252+ Atk Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-286 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 315-372 (78.5 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Doesn't have a chance to OHKO AV Torn on the switch in without rocks
    252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 228-270 (70.5 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 296-351 (91.6 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    I would treat this mon similar like a very Physically bulky, slightly faster and stronger (with Life Orb) version of Mega Heracross, with better coverage and doesn't take up a mega slot. Having access to Ice Punch is huge for being able to hit Lando, and Garchomp, and Poison Jab is huge for punishing fairy switch ins hoping to eat a fighting move. In particular, Clefable which given its ridiculous popularity in ORAS there is little reason for it being any less popular this gen other than the sligh nerf to t wave, just eats your current set up. With Poison Jab it can pick up a clean 2HKO while surviving a Moonblast from full if necessary. I would also run Superpower over either of your two current fighting stab moves. Beast boost should help alleviate the attack drops, and is just generally more reliable. Power-up punch is weak and Hammer Arm allows Pokémon that would normally just get outsped and KO'd to force you out since you're now slower.

    Fell stinger would be cool, but the added benefit that Poison and Ice coverage provides for being able to take on (likely) common threats is just worth more in my opinion. Those are my thoughts, I just think it's best to capitalise on what it's good at and patch its weaknesses with teammates rather than trying to patch it's sp.def with AV.

    This is the set that I would recommend for now before the meta develops.
    Buzzwole @ Life Orb
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Leech Life
    - Ice Punch
    - Superpower
    - Poison Jab
     

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