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VGC 2015 Team - Trick Room

Discussion in 'Festival Plaza' started by Pixel, Mar 10, 2015.

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  1. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    Ice Stone ★★★★Lucarionite ★★★★Dawn Stone ★★★★Decidium Z ★★★★★Galladite ★★★★
    After much consideration, I've decided to make my VGC team a Trick Room team! The current line up is as follows:

    MAINS
    [3D='porygon2']
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Psychic
    - Tri Attack
    - Recover
    - Trick Room

    [3D='goodra']
    Goodra @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
    Mild Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Dragon Tail

    SUBS 1
    [3D='rotom-wash']
    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick
    - Protect

    [3D='sableye-mega']
    Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover

    SUBS 2
    [3D='gourgeist-super']
    Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Pain Split
    - Leech Seed
    - Will-O-Wisp

    [3D='slowbro-mega']
    Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Calm Mind
    - Iron Defense
    - Slack Off

    I've divided my team into 3 sections. The first section is MAINS,which are the two main Pokémon on my team, and are who the team was built around. The second and third section are SUBS, which consists of two separate setups that can be subbed out depending on the opponent's team.

    If you have any suggestions on better moves or Pokémon (which I may or may not have access to), please put comments below!
     
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  2. shinygiratinaz

    shinygiratinaz Boats Against the Current

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    Hmm. I don't have any exactly specific ideas here, but I've noticed that you've invested in lots of special defenders and you don't really have anything invested in physical defense. You've got some Pokémon with naturally good physical defense like that mega slowbro, but maybe think about subbing in one of your least favorites here for a more physical based defender, or just switching the SpD to Def in cases like that aforementioned slowbro?

    I dunno. Just something I noticed.
     
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  3. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    @[member="shinygiratinaz"]
    I see, thanks for the insight! I'll look into finding a slow Pokémon who is bulky in Defense! Got any specific suggestions, I might just have one!
     
  4. Noctis

    Noctis *this message has been removed*

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    Something I've notice is typically a lot of VGCers bring Knock Off on their team. Particularly, I'd avoid any kind of Eviolite user because of this in my personal opinion, of course. If you think you can avoid the Knock Offs then that's fine! Just me, personally, wouldn't bring them. Haha.

    I lovvee Gourgeist, but is he really a good choice for VGC? So many Pokémon outscale him unfortunately and you can choose so many more that does the same exact thing as him.

    I don't see any Hazard Control... you might need that for stallers. Though it's not seen as often as singles, it's still a good idea to run Defog or Rapid Spin on atleast one of your Pokémon just in case. And you do have a lack of Physical Defensive walls as @[member="shinygiratinaz"] pointed out.

    Since you have two Sp. Defensive Megas, why not switch one out to be offensive?

    Also, typically as a doubles team, you'd want to build your Pokémon to work with each other. While your team ideally would work in a doubles, you might want to consider some utility that is made especially for one your offensive players.

    What I mean by this is, for example, I use Lanturn and Galvantula together in doubles all the time.

    [3D='lanturn']
    Lanturn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 196 Def / 60 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Soak
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Aqua Ring

    [3D='galvantula']
    Galvantula @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Compound Eyes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Discharge
    - Sticky Web
    - Bug Buzz
    - Energy Ball

    See how well they work together? Galvantula's Discharge heals Lanturn and damages others while Lanturn Soaks it's opponents completely turning them into a water type to get super effective stab damage off from Galvantula's Discharge plus having moves to pretty much fight off any counter they have. That's the best example I can give you as a "specific utility" for an offensive Pokémon. These two work so well together they are best of bros, each one has each other's back.
     
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  5. East

    East Look to the Stars

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    I notice some really huge issues with this team:

    1 -- Lacking physical defense:
    As @[member="shinygiratinaz"] and @[member="Noctis"] mentioned, your team is extremely skewed towards special defense. I can understand why, given the main weaknesses of each Pokémon individually tend to be in types that are primarily special attacks, but the biggest threat to your team: Mega-Mawile.
    Assume this M-Mawile.
    vs Goodra:
    0 Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 284-336 (144.8 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (in other words, there's no surviving it. Fire Blast DOES knock out this M-Mawile; however, first turn Goodra will be out-sped and get knocked out itself.)
    vs Porygon2:
    252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 106-126 (55.2 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The most effective move Porygon2 has against M-Mawile is Tri Attack, which does less than 30% at maximum to M-Mawile. This means Porygon2 will be lost on turn three from damage by M-Mawile and a fighting type.)
    vs M-Sableye
    252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Sableye: 120-142 (76.9 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (enough said.)
    vs Gourgeist-Super and M-Slowbro
    Your best bets against M-Mawile. Provided that it has been burned, however. Gourgeist is always 2HKO'd by it without burn, 3HKO with it. M-Slowbro can withstand several attacks from M-Mawile, but factoring in a Taunt partner, it won't get the chance to set up and sweep.
    vs Rotom-Wash
    252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 69-81 (55.2 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (assuming Trick Room is still in play, you've lost Rotom-Wash. Without it, you have the victory here with Hydro Pump--no misses allowed.)

    2 -- Too many setup users
    Taunt from a Prankster Sableye, or any Pokémon that is faster out of or in Trick Room shuts down Rotom-Wash, Gourgeist-Super, M-Slowbro, and Porygon2. M-Sableye is the only defense against Taunts, and it's not very reassuring with M-Mawile and Azumarill being commonplace.


    3 -- Movesets that are redundant or don't make sense
    The movesets for the Pokémon on this team overlap too much. Two Will-O-Wispers on the same team isn't a great idea, even with the lack of physical bulk overall.
    Iron Defense on M-Slowbro is unnecessary as well, since its defense is already so high.
    Insomnia on Gourgeist isn't as useful as you'd think. Very few Smeargles with Dark Void are around, and the only viable sleep-inducing move after that is Spore, which wouldn't effect Gourgeist anyway.
    Calm Mind on BOTH megas is a little much. There aren't any physical attackers on the team (no, I'm not counting Goodra because it can't do much with Dragon Tail), so it'd be better suited to switch one of the megas with a physicaly-based one, as well as removing Rotom-W or Goodra in favor of a physical attacker/wall.

    Suggestions
    • Replace Rotom-W with Azumarill and M-Sableye with M-Kangaskhan. This would lessen your weakness to dragon and dark types, even out the fighting resistances/immunities with the weaknesses, and give you a ton of versatility in offense.
    • Instead of M-Slowbro's Iron Defense, go for Ice Beam. As I said, Iron Defense isn't really necessary, and Ice Beam gives you more coverage that your team needs.
     
  6. Northwind's Call

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    Should be noted that your EV spreads are wasteful -- all 'mons are set to level 50, and with the exception of Pokémon without 31 iv's in all stats (ex. hidden power users), one point in a stat is gained for investing four EV's, then for investing an eight EV's afterwards. Porygon, Goodra, and Sableye all have this problem.

    Your team is very, very reliant on Trick Room-- without at least priority in something like Conkeldurr's Mach Punch, Abomasnow's Ice Shard, Talonflame's Brave Bird, etc, you're essentially made of sitting ducks for anything that can shut down your Trick Room.

    Glaring weakness to the classic Bisharp/Gengar lead that plagues all of us these days.

    Nothing to answer Sylveon Spam.

    Nothing to counter true rain.

    Bizarre Scarfed Rotom-Wash when you already have Mega Slowbro if you really need the water-type offense-- Rotom-H gives you a source of fire for bulky Steel-Types.

    Too much setup.

    Goodra is outdated, Rotom-W with a scarf doesn't really have a place on a hard TR team, Gourgeist is outdated, Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro both lack the offensive presence to abuse the psuedo-speed that Trick Room gives them.

    My advice is to play the ladder and find out what works for you and what doesn't work for you.
     
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  7. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    @[member="Noctis"]
    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into team synergy. Maybe I'll DM you a list of all my competitive Pokémon, as to see if you can find some team syngergy?

    @[member="Kouhai"]
    Thanks, I do have a M-Kangaskhan ready, but I don't have an Azumarill, do you have a suggestion for an alternative? If you need I can also send you a list of my competitive Pokémon.

    @[member="Northwind's Call"]
    Thanks for your feedback, although I had to read it a few times before getting it. I'm thinking a Trick Room team is not the way to go here, so maybe I'll just ditch the idea. If you'd like I can send you a second team idea after Noctis and Kouhai give me some pointers, and have your opinions on it?

    So, thanks to everyone's advice, I've changed my team around. It's no longer a Trick Room Team, but it has retained some of it's members. I also put the correct stats in, as Showdown was just giving a suggestion which I copied, not realising that it wasn't the same as my sets.

    [3D='mawile-mega']
    Mega-Mawile @ Mawilite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Play Rough
    - Iron Head
    - Sucker Punch
    - Protect

    [3D='goodra']
    Goodra @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Sludge Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dragon Pulse

    [3D='jolteon']
    Jolteon @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Signal Beam
    - Volt Switch

    [3D='porygon2']
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - Discharge
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    I understand that it is very Special Attack heavy, and I am working on a solution for that, but advice on the current team members would be very helpful
     
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