Why are HMs still HMs?

I totally agree with this. It would eliminate so many things that are difficult with Pokémon such as:
1) the need of an HM slave.
2) the need to have a good Pokémon with "bad" HM moves like Cut or Flash.
3) the need to have a Move Deleter, which only exists to delete HMs.
4) the need to do puzzles or fill requests to get such HMs
5) the need to code HMs to read HMs (it would be easier to code them as TMs, would make more room for programming other cool things like increased shiny chance!)

 

Aye That's true, I guess they'll still keep HMs as is but now there really is no point in all those extra downsides to them.

 

I was going to say something stupid about HMs being used outside of battle in the field, but Rock Smash, Secret Power and so on and so forth. The idea of HMs is quite pointless, especially since the original idea of them being special powers that Pokémon can learn and gain the ability to use after beating gyms. Some games no longer even have eight HMs anymore, it's quite disappointing in a way.
If they keep HMs as a separate thing, then at least remove that freaking can't delete mechanic. It is frustrating when you have to have HM slaves... Also, what Omicron/Zeta (a rom hack) did where you could obtain an item to replace the HM later in the story was quite cool, so Game Freak, if you could do that...

P.S. Rock Smash and Defog are useful in a way.

 

Although both HMs and TMs are both infinite now, HMs still are unique apart from TMs due to the special quality of the moves they provide. The moves HMs can teach are primarily field based moves that make you interact with the environment, such as surfing, diving, cutting etc. There are only a select few TMs that can provide field moves (Dig and Sweet Scent for example). If both HMs and TMs were mixed together into one category, the organization of field based machines and general based machines would be lost. In the end they both teach Pokémon moves, but I think HMs are still HMs because they provide a unique function that offers more than just a new Pokémon Move.

 

What bloom said. HM's you can use outside battle which sets them apart from TMs
Also you can't unlearn them without the move deleter.

 

Bloom has a good point here, so why not separate them into field moves and regular. That way you would be able to figure out what will give you a move outside of battle, since in some games Secret Power does things outside of battle, and sometimes Rock Smash is not a HM. Possibly Technical Machines and Field Machines (TM and FM) instead. FMs being just what you can use outside of battle, otherwise are the same as TMs.

 

One of my original gripes about having the TMs be unlimited was that they would make the HMs strictly worse now because of the "can't delete" part. HMs mat contain a few stronger moves and overworld capabilities, but TMs are more versatile.

 

The hms stayed as they are in order of tradition i think! You can never get rid of an hm easily!

 

There's actually nothing we can do about it. The reason HMs aren't deletable is because we need them to get into maybe secret entrances, caves, etc. Now imagine if we delete those HM moves. We might get stuck inside a cave or something.

It's also important that we need certain badges to be able to use these HMs outside of battle. Remember that many areas in the game are accessible only through the use of HMs. If we got a Pokémon with Surf at the start of OR/AS for example, we could already cross the river north of Oldale and go to Slateport. That would totally ruin the story, wouldn't it?

Sure it's annoying sometimes, but I'm sure that much thought was put into keeping the HMs as HMs. I think it's better for the game to keep having them.

 

But why would you be stuck if you deleted the move? You could just relearn it! And if you somehow managed to release the Pokémon or something, you could just catch a Pokémon and put it on Wonder Trade. And they could always keep the gym restrictions in to prevent surf abuse etc.

 

1. Get traded a Pokémon who knows Surf before you have the HM
2. Go to a place where you need Surf to exit
3. Replace Surf with another move
4. Save
5. You're stuck forever

Assuming you're silly enough to do that, I'm guessing that's the primary reason behind not being able to unlearn HMs.
Of course another reason HMs remain in the game in such a half-arsed manner, still being necessary to advance in the game but not required all the time, is because Game Freak is slow to get the point.

 

1. Get traded a Pokémon who knows Surf
2. Go to a place where you need Surf to exit
3. Replace Surf with another move
4. Do all the battles and whatever in the cave
5. Replace a move with Surf
6. Leave cave
7. ???
8. Profit!

You wouldn't be able to use surf if you got a traded Pokémon before you had the HM because you wouldn't have the required gym badge, therefore eliminating the possibility of entering an area you need surf to enter/leave.

 

But then that would be kind of stupid. I mean who would delete an HM move, get stuck, then relearn the HM move to get out.

I'm not sure if I'm getting your point about Wonder Trade, but maybe it's not a good idea to make the players rely on luck so that they could get a Pokémon that can learn the HM they need. I mean, what about all those players without internet connection. This is likely the reason they don't allow you to trade Pokémon on your party that have an HM move on them. They just don't want you to get stuck ayt.

As for the gym restrictions, maybe they would be able to put those, but really almost all gyms don't have anything to do with the story. What I meant with my point above was that advancing to places you can't go to yet because of HMs would ruin the flow of the story. Like, going to Slateport right at the start of the game will get you to battle May under the bike overpass when you haven't even battled her yet at Route 103.

 

That's what I'm saying! They wouldn't be stuck because they could relearn the HM. If you had the HM and you deleted the move, why wouldn't you relearn it? The alternative is to stay in the place forever.

Okay fair enough about Wonder Trade; not everyone has WiFi, so maybe keep the feature of not being able to release/trade a Pokémon with an HM move.

I disagree that the gyms have nothing to do with the story. They are important to the story because they must be completed in order. You can't go to Slateport until you defeat Brawly, for example. This means that HMs can't interfere with the story because, in your example, you wouldn't be able to use surf until you obtain the balance badge, which means you would have to have beaten the Petalburg Gym, which can't be done before you reach Slateport.

 

I still think that HM's are annoying, they could easily be turned into TM's and then semi replaced with items. That way you'd still be able to use them as moves in battle. For example, the move Flash is an HM in Kanto games. I personally think flash is a wast of a move slot, and refuse to put it on a Pokémon. there is a cave that's to dark to see in, so i need flash, but why can't I do what I do in real life and use a flashlight?

 

Because Game Freak!

 

No, I mean there would be no sense in deleting the HM move in the first place since you have no other choice but to relearn it anyway otherwise you're stuck. That's why I don't think that there would be any point in making HM moves deletable.

I meant that they had nothing to do with the story development. But anyway forget that XD I misunderstood your point there earlier so nevermind.

I'd just like to point out to everyone though that making the HMs as TMs won't work because if they were TMs, it would be hard to make badge restrictions to the HMs. This isn't a problem for some of the Pokémon games, but for games like OR/AS, having no badge restrictions for the HMs will break the flow of the game.