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Pokemon Theory - Dialga and Palkia are Ultra Beasts?

Discussion in 'Pokémon General' started by Pixel, May 4, 2017.

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  1. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    So, with the release of the Diamond and Pearl remakes coming closer and closer (at least, we think so...), I've been wondering what sort of extended lore the remakes will give us, and I've come up with a theory - Dialga and Palkia are Ultra Beasts, or something akin to Ultra Beasts. I've come up with points for and against this, and remember, it's just a theory, so don't bash me too hard, and I'm not saying that they definitely are UBs, just something similar to UBs. Also, I'll be referring mainly to game lore with my theory, as anime and manga lore aren't always canon with the games, which should be considered the official canon for any Pokémon lore.

    Points For:
    • Dialga and Palkia come from different dimensions, and are summoned to the dimension where the player exists via portals created with the power of other Pokémon. Much like how Cosmog (and Solgaleo/Lunala) can create Ultra Wormholes, the Red Chain made from Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf's crystals can create wormholes that summon Dialga and Palkia.
      However, it is unknown whether Dialga and Palkia have the power to leave this dimension on their own. (Palkia probably does due to it's spatial powers)

    [*]In the Generation 3 remakes, the lore revolving around Mega Evolution was expanded upon. Mega Evolution was a concept introduced in Generation 6, so it's possible that Ultra Beasts and Ultra Space, a concept introduced in Generation 7, will be expanded upon in the Generation 4 remakes.
    • However, Mega Evolution was a battle mechanic, while Ultra Beasts are a story mechanic. It's possible that Z-Crystals are instead expanded upon, as they are also mechanic. (An interesting point to this is that the basic type Z-Crystals will change Arceus's (and Judgment's) type, much like the Elemental Plates.)

    [*]Team Galactic has a strong tie to space, and their goal is to capture Dialga and Palkia in order to create a new dimension, so it's possible that Dialga and Palkia's dimensions, both the ones they come from and the ones they create are similar to Ultra Space - belonging outside of the dimension of the player.
    • However, this contradicts the first point I made, where it is unknown whether Dialga and Palkia have the power to leave their own dimension. It would make sense that a Pokémon capable of creating new dimensions could leave it's own dimension, and the Red Chain summoning method is just a way to keep them contained.

    [*]The UBs all have very eccentric designs, as do Dialga and Palkia.
    • However, lots of Pokémon have eccentric designs, so this one's kind of a half-point.


    Points Against:
    • The Ultra Beasts come from an explicit "alternate dimension", while Dialga and Palkia just come from their "own dimension", which is neither confirmed not denied to be alternate dimensions.
      However, since most dimensions in Pokémon that aren't the one where the player exists have been referred to as "alternate" (both with the wormhole leading from the player's save file to another one in ORAS's Delta Story, and with Ultra Space in SuMo), it's still possible that these dimensions are alternate versions of the player's, but with only Dialga or Palkia governing them. (Note: The anime canon lists them as being "worlds" rather than "dimensions", but the implications are the same)

    [*]Dialga and Palkia were created by Arceus, who is said to be the "god" of all Pokémon, and would therefore place Dialga and Palkia under the title of "Pokémon", not "Ultra Beast".
    • However, Ultra Beasts are still Pokémon, they're just extradimensional, so it's possible that Arceus created all the Pokémon from every dimension within the game's canon, which would include Ultra Beasts, and then have Dialga and Palkia (and by extension, Arceus) under the same or a similar classification as the Ultra Beasts.

    [*]Dialga and Palkia have been created by Arceus in the player's dimension, as seen in the Sinjoh Ruin cutscene in HeartGold/SoulSilver.
    • This doesn't confirm or deny whether Dialga and Palkia can also created in an alternate dimension, it just means they can definitely be created in the player's dimension.

    [*]Dialga and Palkia (and by extension, Arceus) being Ultra Beasts doesn't fit within the Pokémon timeline.
    • However, remakes have changed or added timelines to the official Pokémon canon before, so there's still a chance they could be UBs, or related to UBs. A great example of this is how XY stated that Lucario was the first Pokémon to achieve Mega Evolution (this was in the form of a Kalosian legend), whereas ORAS changed that completely and instead stated that Rayquaza was the first Pokémon to achieve Mega Evolution (this was in the form of Draconid history), so it's possible for brand-new lore to be changed even within the same Generation. (Note: The use or absence of Mega Stones is irrelevant - the Lucarionite causes Lucario to evolve, while the Meteorite causes Rayquaza to evolve (as long as it knows Dragon Ascent) and therefore both Pokémon technically have "Mega Stones".)

    [*]"Dialga and Palkia can't be Ultra Beasts!!1! Stop ruining my childhood nostalgia prAISE LORD BIDOOF LMAO"
    • "It's just a theory, nobody knows what could happen in the DP remakes. I could be right, or I could be dead wrong, we'll just have to wait and see."


    So, that's my theory! Feel free to discuss down below, but please don't attack me for sharing my ideas. :)

    EDIT: Giratina can also be added to this theory, however I didn't include it previously because I was talking about DP remakes, and Giratina never crossed my mind.
     
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  2. JadeFox

    JadeFox Valor Veteran

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    It sounds like a pretty solid theory, in my opinion! I'm not really one for theories, but it would make sense that Dialga and Palkia could be something like Ultra Beasts. And it makes sense that UBs could be expanded on in the DP remakes, and I'm really looking forward to seeing something like this happen in them!
     
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  3. Arc1Dragon

    Arc1Dragon Just Monika

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    This is a very interesting theory. I don't think they are Ultra Beasts however.

    I think Rayquaza was the first to Mega Evolve but Lucario was the fist to Mega Evolve with a keystone or something like that.
     
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  4. HiddenLore

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    My biggest issue is partially addressed in your points, but I'll restate it. I don't think their designs are eccentric enough. The UB's have a common thread that their faces are hard to identify. I only just realized that Celesteela even has a face. Dialg and Palkia are clearly dinosaur-esque and more like traditional Pokémon. True that this doesn't disprove the theory. They could even be what I consider a "fallen Ultra Beast" like Necrozma, having been part of the Ultra Zone, but eventually due to being seperated they change to fit the challenges of the world they are in, becoming more Pokémon like.
     
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  5. Syaoron the Fox

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    An interesting theory with a lot of points, However, I have prefer to approach this from a religious perspective. What? No, I don't mean like Christianity. In a world where Pokémon literally shaped the Earth, Pokémon in some way or form must be your gods. So here's what I have to offer:

    If we approach this from an infinite dimensions with infinite possibilities perspective, we accomplish nothing: Then, @[member="Chris"] could be absolutely correct, and we may never know about it, because of parallel universes and the unlikelihood of interaction. So, let's talk about the dimensions we already know about.

    Our World: The world that we've come to know about, where our lives take place, so on and so forth. There exist some ordinary Pokémon, as well as a few legendaries that have been sealed away, or roam the Earth in secret, or are simply hiding away. Some have small powers and small duties, while others are colossal, responsible for the mountains and oceans (Groudon and Kyogre).

    Ultra Space: The world where Ultra Beasts come from. Ultra Beasts are dangerous creatures, as shown in Lusamine's corruption and insanity, and the potent destructive capabilities they possess as seen in their battles against the Tapu, but they otherwise have no effect on other dimensions except when summoned, such as by Cosmog's portal. It appears sea-like, with such structures as coral and jellyfish.

    Distortion World: The world where Giratina reigns, a shadow realm with no ending, no beginning, and relative nothingness. It is a shadow image of our world; where ours is full of life, Giratina's world is void.

    ?????????: The world where Dialga, Palkia, and possibly Arceus come from. Regardless of what dimension they live in, they have an enormous impact on our world: Regulating or creating the fabric of time and space which our world needs to keep its stitches together.

    By virtue of their nature, the Ultra Beasts have no connection to any world outside of Ultra Space unless summoned. Regardless of whether or not Arceus made them, there is something inherent in how Arceus seperated them from all the others. Dialga and Palkia on the other hand, at least lore wise, have enormous external implications. Dialga made time, Palkia made space, and yet for some reason, they exist outside of the dimension in which their work is best seen. We know that no time or space exist in the Distortion World, as it is a shadow realm to ours, and the nature of time and space in the Ultra Space is questionable.

    I prefer to think of Dialga and Palkia in the same way I think of Groudon and Kyogre: gods among Pokémon. The nature of their interaction with the world are more creationist than the scientific phenomena of Ultra Beasts, and so I believe that they cannot be the same.

    That said, @[member="Chris"] , you're pretty much right. Whether they're Ultra Beasts or something similar, Dialga and Palkia are not like regular Pokémon, not even like other legendary Pokémon, just by nature of the lore surrounding them. I hope to see more of the mystery surrounding my favorite generation when the time for the remake comes.
     
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  6. GiratinaMissingNo

    GiratinaMissingNo ~Renegade Glitch~

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    This is really good!
    Oooh! Does that mean I'm an Ultra Beast too? I am GiratinaMissingNo after all ;)
    It definitely makes a lot of sense that the creation trio would be Beasts due to the whole 'alternate dimension' thing.
    #MissingNo
     
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  7. Pixel

    Pixel Aether Child

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    I was planning to include Giratina in the theory, however I decided to dismiss Giratina. Now that I think about it, Giratina would also apply because it rules over the Distortion World (also known as the Reverse World) could be considered an alternate dimension to the one the player lives in. I'll update the theory :)
     
  8. Mandriel

    Mandriel Valor Knight

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    This does make a lot of sense. LIke you mentioned before, ORAS expanded upon X and Y's plot about Mega Evolution, so it does make sense that the DP remakes will do the same with Sun and Moon's Ultra Beasts.

    Maybe Arceus is the one who created all the alternate dimensions? That sounds like a good plot for the endgame, kind of like the Delta Episode.
     
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  9. Cadbberry

    Cadbberry Dad: 76.... Or Cad: 76

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    While it does make a lot of sense, I still feel like they are their own Pokémon. As in Pokémon over being an UB. Just since they control space and time, I feel like they work along side Arceus rather then having been locked in their own demension of creepyness. But that is just my opinion :P
     
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